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Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, July 10, 1973
[00.07.46-DASH continues to interrogate MITCHELL about his role in giving money to LIDDY.] Mr. DASH. NO did you recall that in this particular Case, Mr. Stans was asking you about Liddy?: Mr. MITCHELL. I don't have that recollection on the issue of Magruder's continuing authority but I would not challenge or dispute Mr. Stans' statement on the subject. Mr. DASH. Well, that was his testimony. Now, you had had a meeting with Mr. Magruder on March 30, In which Mr. Magruder was asking you to approve a quarter million dollar plan that would authorize giving Liddy this kind of money. Your statement now, then, is that you did tell Mr. Stans that -Mr. Magruder could pay Mr. Liddy any sum of money that Mr. Magruder wanted to pay him. [00.08.26] Mr. MITCHELL. Don't put it in the context of any sum of money. It was a fact that existed, Mr. Dash in connection with--Liddy had been in the intelligence and information gathering field. I think Mr. Stans has testified in here that to that time, he had been authorized $125,000 and it is again in the Context of the fact that Magruder had continuing authority to authorize moneys and Mr. Stans said, with respect to Liddy, I can take it on the Same basis to authorize money in connection on with the ongoing programs that Liddy had been carrying out. Mr. DASH. That would be true, Mr. Mitchell, in the abstract. Mr. MITCHELL. Well, this Is in the abstract, Mr. Dash because there were no sums involved and none discussed, and this has been the testimony. Mr. DASH. Well, Mr. Stans felt, it necessary to come back to You and this was shortly after you were aware that Mr. Liddy was seeking to get approval of a plan for a quarter of a million dollars. [00.09.25] Mr. MITCHELL. No, we had had no discussion whatsoever with respect to approval of a Liddy plan of a quarter of a Million dollars. and Stans has testified that he never heard about it. And I am so testifying that I never heard about it in connection with the discussion of whether or not the authorization from Magruder to Liddy had anything to do with a quarter of a million dollar plan. Mr. DASH. But shortly after the March 30 meeting, you were asked by -Mr. Stans If Mr. Magruder could pay sizable amounts to Mr. Liddy? [00.09.55] Mr. MITCHELL. No, there weren't any sizable amounts. We didn't talk about numbers, we didn't talk about sizable amounts at all. What we talked about was did Magruder have continuing authorization, Stans said, to provide money to Liddy. I say continuing authorization and it is still the fact, that it is continuing authorization to Liddy. We are not talking about a quarter of a million dollars, we are not talking about sizable amounts, we are talking about what was conceived to be an ongoing program that had already expended $125,000. [00.10.25] Mr. DASH. Just one last question on this, Mr. Mitchell. Then why was it necessary for Mr. Stans to come to you if it was not a sizable amount involved? Mr. MITCHELL. Mr. Stans has already testified that he didn't know the amount involved and didn't discuss it with me.. Mr. DASH. I think Mr. Stans' testimony is that he asked you if any amounts were to be paid by Mr. Liddy, would that, be all right? Mr. MITCHELL. I do not recall on that basis, Mr. Dash. [00.10.53] Mr. DASH. Let me just read to you, Mr. Mitchell, Mr. Stans' testimony on page 1644. "I said"--meaning Mr. Stans--"you mean, John, that if Magruder tells Sloan to pay these amounts or ANY amounts, to Gordon Liddy that he should do so? And he said, that is right." Mr. MITCHELL, Would you go back and pick it up so I can hear the prior testimony? Mr. DASH. Let me just go back. "I will quote the conversation with John Mitchell as best as I can paraphrase it. It is not precise. But I saw John Mitchell a relatively short time after and said, Sloan tells me that Gordon Liddy wants a substantial amount of money. What is it all about?" "And John Mitchell's reply was, I do not know. We will have to ask Magruder, because Magruder is in charge of the campaign and he directs the spending." Mr. Stans said, "I said, do you mean, John, that if Magruder tells Sloan to pay these amounts or any amounts to Gordon Liddy, that he should do so? And he said, that is right." Mr. MITCHELL. Well, I would respectfully disagree with Mr. Stans on the fact of substantial amounts or that the discussions had to do with respect to the authorization by Magruder in the continuity Of the way he had been acting. This was as I was coming aboard in connection with the campaign. [00.12.35]
Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, July 10, 1973
[00.12.35-DASH interrogates MITCHELL about his role in launching the Watergate breakin, authorizing and financing] Mr. DASH. Now, Mr. Mitchell, were you aware that on or about May 27, 1972, there -was in fact a break-in of the Democratic National Committee headquarters at the Watergate? Mr. MITCHELL. No, sir. Mr. DASH. And did you know of the code name, "Gemstone" or any of the wiretap proof proofs that came from the, break-in? Mr. MITCHELL. Not until a great deal later down the road, Mr. Dash. Mr. DASH. When you say that, how far down the road? Mr. MITCHELL. I am not, quite certain. I believe. it would be substantially down the road. Mr. DASH. Before June 17 or after June 17? Mr. MITCHELL. Oh, much after June 17. Mr. DASH. Were you aware that, Mr. Magruder kept a so-called Mitchell Gemstone file as well as a Haldeman Gemstone file, prior to June 17? Mr. MITCHELL. I have heard testimony here, Mr. Dash, that I believe it was Mr. Reisner, that they kept a Mitchell file, in which documents would be placed for Mr. Magruder to come up and discuss them with. me. Mr. DASH. Yes, I believe Mr. Magruder has also testified about that. [00.13.44] Mr. MITCHELL. Yes, about a file that would have documents, memorandums et cetera. et cetera. I am not aware of anybody testifying to the fact that there was a special Mitchell gemstone file. Mr. DASH. Well. the Mitchell file did include. on that testimony. You will recall, that it included gemstone documents. Mr. MITCHELL. I recall Reisner stating that he had put the documents in there, yes. [00.14.09-MITCHELL tries very hard to act honest] Mr. DASH. But do you recall Mr. Magruder testifying that he had taken these documents and showed them to you? Mr. MITCHELL. I recall it very vividly because A happens to be a palpable, damnable lie. Mr. DASH. What is the lie, Mr. Mitchell? Mr. MITCHELL. Well. let me lay out the scenario for you, because my answer will come in the scenario. I paid particular attention to this because of the fact that Mr. Magruder said that at his regular 8:30 morning meeting, sometime within a week or a week and a half from the time of the initial break-in, that he brought certain documents to my office at the regular 8:30 meeting to display them to me and that I was dissatisfied with them and that I called Gordon Liddy up to my office and raised holy hell with him about the fact that, they were not the type of information that was wanted. [00.15.11] Now. let me go back and pick up the facts with respect to the meeting First of all, I had an 8:15 meeting every day over at the White House in connection with activities that were governmental, but I sat in on, Second. if you have my logs. that are very, very accurate and correct, you will note that there was no meeting in the morning during that period when Mr. Magruder and I were alone during that meeting. Third, I have never seen or talked to Mr. Liddy from the 4th day of February 1972 until the 15th day of June either in person or On the telephone. [00.15.58] Fourth, I would like to point out that Mr. Dean's testimony is that When he first debriefed 'Mr. Liddy on the 19th of June, Mr. Liddy told Mr. Dean that Magruder the one that had pushed him continue the second entry on the 17th of June and I cannot conceive Of anybody, if they had Mitchell as a scapegoat, why they would get down to Magruder and use him as the one that had pushed him. so I am using that dialogue to point out the reasons why this meeting could not and did not take place. [00.16.40] Mr. DASH. Just taking that dialogue, you were aware that there was no love lost between Mr. Liddy and 'Mr. Magruder and he might well have, wanted to, since we are speculating, put the blame on Mr. Magruder. Mr. MITCHELL. As I am stating Mr. Dash, I never saw Mr. Liddy from the 4th of February until the 15th of June and I cannot tell you whether there was love lost or not. I think there is testimony that if they had a controversy, it should be kept away from me and settled at lower echelons. Mr. DASH. Well, if Mr. Liddy did not see you, did Mr. Magruder show you the Gemstone file, as he indicated he did? Mr. MITCHELL. No; he, did not and I just got through denying that fact that he did and I am pointing out the reasons why he did not because of the circumstances and time in which he -is talking about the meetings that are referred to in those logs. a [00.17.31]
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Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, July 10, 1973
[00.17.31-Sam DASH interrogates MITCHELL about the Watergate Breakin] Mr. DASH. You do not recall then, any statement by Mr. Liddy to you indicating that the O'Brien microphone was not working and he would -have to fix it? Mr. MITCHELL. Mr. Dash, the only statement that, I have had with Mr. Liddy and the only conversation from the 4th of February until this very day was one single meeting that shows in my log on June 15, 1972, where Mr. Liddy was brought into my office by Mr. Van Shumway the Public Information Officer, to discuss with me a letter that Mr. Liddy had written on Mr. Stans' request to the Washington Post having to do with some charges that had been made by the General Accounting Office dealing with the Corrupt Practices Act and Mr. Shumway did not want that letter to go to the Post without my approval. I looked at the letter and gave. it the approval -and that was the end of it. That was the only conversation I had with Mr. Liddy so it could not possibly be as you were inferring. [00.18.39] Mr. DASH. Without seeking at all to challenge, Mr. Mitchell, your testimony, would it not be true since You referred to the log or what may or may not appear in -the log if a. name does appear in the log it is perhaps likely that such a person did meet with you during that time but does it actually mean if a name does not appear that such a person never entered your office? Mr. MITCHELL. I believe that to be absolutely true, Mr. Dash. If you go back and look at that log you will find that, the aide that I had sitting in the next office to me when he came into see me that was logged. When my daughter called on the telephone or when my wife called on the telephone-by the way, my wife called a lot more often than my daughter [laughter] but regardless of who it was that called and who came into the office that was logged in that particular circumstance. [01.19.36-DASH asks whether it was MITCHELL who ordered LIDDY to execute a second break-in at WATERGATE] Mr. DASH. Well, even though you may not have followed all the testimony, Mr. Mitchell, are you -aware that some time earlier at the beginning of these hearings that, Mr. McCord in his early testimony before, this committee gave some corroborating evidence, although hearsay -as it was, to the effect that Liddy told him that the reason they had to go into the DNC on June 17 was because you, Mr. Mitchell, were unhappy about the false or the ineffective working operation Of the O'Brien bug. Mr. MITCHELL. Mr. Dash, that fits right in with Mr. McCord's testimony as the only reason he did anything of this was because he thought he had the approval of the Attorney General of the United States and the counselor to the President that -at just fits right in with it. But the fact of the matter is that I never saw or talked to Mr. Liddy from the 4th of February until the 15th of June. [00.20.36] Mr. DASH. All right, now. Mitchell, where and when did you first learn of the break-in of the Democratic National headquarters that took place on June 17, 1972? Mr. MITCHELL. Well, I was in California for the weekend on an extensive round of activities and. to the best of my recollection, Mr. Dash. it was on Saturday morning. I am not sure who the individual was who told me, We were, I was moving with Governor Reagan from a hotel to a place where there was a series of political meetings, to the best, of my recollection. when I arrived there I was advised of it. There was considerable concern about the matter because I was holding a press conference out there. and we did not know what the circumstances were, I believe that by that time that they had--Mr. McCord, his name had surfaced or Mrs. McCord had called somebody at the committee about it, and obviously there was an involvement in the Committee To Re-Elect the President Mr. DASH. What. if anything,. did you do, while still in California? Mr. MITCHELL. While in California? I did a number of things. First of all, I continued to carry out the schedule that I had there which was quite extensive for 2 days. I asked The people, particularly Mr. Mardian who was there, to get as much information about it as he could. I put out a statement to The effect that, I do not know whether it went out there or after we came back, to the effect that we did not understand this, that Mr. McCord was one of our employees, he also had a separate consulting firm, that it was basically an attempt to carry on the extensive schedule that I had which, of course, is in the book that you are well aware about and. at the same Time, Trying, to get information as to what had happened lack in the District of Columbia. [00.22.47]
Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, July 10, 1973
[00.22.47-DASH continues to interrogate MITCHELL about the events at the time of the Watergate break-in] Mr. DASH. At that time, out in California, did it ever cross your when you read about this that perhaps the Liddy plan had been put in operation? Mr. MITCHELL. Well, that had crossed my mind but the players were different and, of course, there was a lot of discussion about CIA and because of the Cuban Americans who were involved in it. It vomit until actually later on that it struck home to me that this could have been the same operation that had a genesis back in the earlier Conversation. Mr. DASH. Well then, after you returned from California, and I understand that was on June 19, 1972. Mr. MITCHELL. Yes, Sir. it was. Mr. DASH. When. and how were you briefed as to what actually happened in this matter? [00.23.39] Mr. MITCHELL. Well. how was I briefed as to what actually happened? Mr. DASH. Yes. Mr. MITCHELL. Well, that is such a broad statement that. I could tell you for the next 6 months I was being briefed on it. Mr. DASH. I mean, let's take the--- Mr. MITCHELL. Excuse me. Mr. Dash. YOU are asking the, questions" Mr. DASH. That is all right, I think you were about ready to give me a shorter than a longer answer. Mr. MITCHELL. Well, I was giving you a shorter answer to the fact that the first so-called briefing on What had happened, and you used the word "actually" which I will have to omit from that for the time being because I have never quite got to the bottom of it, was after Mr. Mardian and Mr. LaRue had met with Mr. Liddy and Mr. Liddy provided them with quite an extensive story on Mr. Liddy's activities. [00.24.38-DISCUSSION OF LIDDY'S activities with PLUMBERS] Mr. DASH. Will you tell us briefly what that extensive story included? Mr. MITCHELL. Well, it included the, fact, that he was involved with other individuals in the Watergate activity, that he, had also made surveillance of McGovern headquarters, I believe it was, and that he had previously, as part of what has since, become known as the Plumbers group, acted extensively in certain -areas while he was at the White House in connection with the Ellsberg matter, in the Dita Beard matter and a few of the other little gems. Mr. DASH. When you say the Ellsberg matter what specifically are you referring to? Mr. MITCHELL. Well, I am referring to, well, it certainly wasn't, the prosecution. Mr. DASH. NO. Mr. MITCHELL. Obviously it had to do with the surreptitious entry of the doctor's office in California. Mr. DASH. And when you refer to the Dita Beard matter what specifically did you learn through Mr. LaRue and Mr. Mardian? Mr. MITCHELL. Well, if my recollection is correct he was assisting in spiriting her out of wherever they spirited her out of, either New York or Washington. [00.25.59-This MEETING was, as DEAN stated, a major point in the developing COVERUP. MITCHELL denies that it was so significant] Mr. DASH. Was there a meeting in your apartment on the evening that you arrived in Washington on June 19, attended by Mr. LaRue, Mr. Mardian, Mr. Dean. Mr. Magruder--- Mr. MITCHELL. Magruder and myself, that is correct. Mr. DASH. DO you recall the purpose of that meeting, the discussion on that took place there? Mr. MITCHELL. I recall that, we, had been traveling all day and, of course, we had very little information about what the current status was of the entry of the Democratic National Committee, and -we met at the apartment to discuss it. They were, of course, clamoring for a response from the committee because of Mr. McCord's involvement, et cetera, and we had quite a general discussion of the subject matter. [00.26.52] Mr. DASH. Do you recall any discussion of the -so-called either Gemstone files or wiretapping files that you had in your possession? Mr. MITCHELL. -No, I had not heard of the Gemstone file., as of that meeting and, as of that date, I had not heard that anybody there at that particular meeting knew of the wiretapping aspects of that or that had any connection with it. Mr. DASH. Did either you or anybody in your presence at That meeting discuss Mr. Liddy having a good fire at his house? Mr. MITCHELL. Not in my recollection was there any discussion of destruction of documents at that meeting. [00.27.27] Mr. DASH. You are aware of the testimony of Mr. Magruder that he did get the idea to destroy the documents and he did in fact burn the Gemstone documents? Mr. MITCHELL. I am aware of his testimony and think his testimony was one of these general things "It was decided that" or something to that effect, but, to my recollection, there was no such discussion of it. [00.27.51]
Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, July 10, 1973
[00.27.51-DASH continues to interrogate MITCHELL about the developing COVERUP of Watergate] Mr. DASH. -Now, during" the period which is the latter part, of June, July and perhaps August, you did become somewhat aware, not fully aware, of the fact that Mr. Magruder had been very much involved in the so-called Liddy bugging operation of the Democratic National Committee headquarters, and also of the Liddy-Hunt operations you have indicated for the plumbers activities that you have described earlier. Were you not also aware, Mr. Mitchell. of the wiretapping of certain journalists and staff members of Mr. Kissinger after the so-called leaks of the SALT talks? Mr. MITCHELL. Mr. Dash, which question do you Want me to answer? Mr. DASH. I think. the first. [00.28.46-MITCHELL gets evasive] Mr. MITCHELL. We are going: from July 1972 back in some place in 1969 and I am not quite sure how you want me to approach it. Mr. DASH. Well. you did become aware during June and July of Mr. Magruder's involvement in die break-in of the Democratic National Committee headquarters? [00.29.05] Mr. MITCHELL. We had people such as Mr. Liddy and so forth say Yes, that Magruder was involved. Magruder was saying no at one time and maybe yes the other time, and so forth. but -we were aware of the fact that certainly Mr. Magruder had provided the money if nothing else and that during, the latter part of June and the early part of July seemed to be what all the focus was as to how much money Mr. Magruder had provided to Mr. Liddy, Mr. DASH. Well, there came a time when you were aware that Magruder himself had admitted to certain persons, whether Mr. Mardian or Mr. Parkinson, that he had been involved but was going to give a false story about what he had done. [00.29.48-MITCHELL acts real innocent about whether he SUBORNED PERJURY in MAGRUDER'S case] Mr. MITCHELL. Well. I don't want to get Mr. Parkinson in there and I don't know about Mr. Mardian because Mr. Magruder told them two or three different stories, and Mr. Parkinson. and Mr. O'Brien previously Went ahead on the story that they thought was to be the facts. As I understand the sequence of events when this thrashing around was involved, occurred, involving everybody from the President of the United States and the chairman of this committee and everybody on down the line as anybody they could think of to name, Mr. Parkinson. Senator ERVIN. [presiding]. Just a minute. did they accuse this chairman? Mr. MITCHELL. NO. Sir. this committee. I was going to use some other committee. I think -we had better use some other committee. [Laughter.] [00.30.37] The fact of the matter is that to the best of my recollection that Mr. Parkinson got Mr. Magruder and Mr. Porter down to his office and put them in a room and said now "I want You to 'write down what your statement is on this subject matter because it probably Is going to he, used as a deposition before the grand jury or certainly for submission to the Justice Department." So I want to make sure that Mr. O'Brien--that Mr. Parkinson is not involved in this. It got to the point where I had a very. very strong suspicion as to what the involvement was, yes. [00.31.19] Mr. DASH. With that you also had the suspicion, if that is the word you want to use. that Mr. Magruder's story which he was writing down and which he was going to give in a deposition to the grand jury was not a true story. Mr. MITCHELL. Well, this came out later. I didn't know what he was writing down July 15 or whatever it was, it came later. Mr. DASH. There, came a time when you did become aware of that. Mr. MITCHELL. That is right. Mr. DASH. When was that?, Mr. MITCHELL. I would say it was sometime before he went, to the grand Jury, sometime. I don't want to duck your question. on these, wiretaps that happened back in 1969. Mr. DASH. I will come back to that in a second. But you did become aware, by the time he testified on the grand jury that Mr. Magruder was, in fact, testifying to a false story. [00.32.12] Mr. MITCHELL. I became aware or had a belief that it was a false story. Mr. DASH. As a matter of fact, there were a number of meetings that you had with Mr. Dean, Mr. Magruder, Mr. LaRue, and Mr. Mardian, and at least in way part of the. discussion that took place that time, was Mr. Magruder's testimony before the grand jury? Mr. MITCHELL. I would think there would have been More than one meeting on the subject matter, yes. Mr. DASH. I think the calendar would show there Were quite a number of meetings in which you met, Mr. MITCHELL. There were a lot of meetings, with a lot of matters being discussed at that time, Mr. DASH. Also was it true that Mr. Dean began to serve as sort of a liaison between this group that you were meeting with and Mr. Haldeman and Mr. Ehrlichman? Mr. MITCHELL. Well, Mr. Dean was serving as a liaison between the Committee To Re-Elect the President and the White House and I am sure that would have meant Mr. Haldeman and Mr. Ehrlichman. [00.33.08]
Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, July 10, 1973
[00.33.08-DASH interrogates MITCHELL about his knowledge of the developing COVERUP of WATERGATE] Mr. DASH. And then, to the best of your recollection and knowledge, were you aware, that Mr. Haldeman and Mr. Ehrlichman were being kept Informed on the question of the strategy to conceal Mr. Magruder's actual--- Mr. MITCHELL. I had no specific, knowledge of that. Mr. DASH. Did you ever discuss that with Mr. Ehrlichman or Haldeman? Mr. MITCHELL. No, Sir; I never did. You are talking about the Magruder's testimony? Mr. DASH. Yes, Mr. MITCHELL. To the best, of my recollection I have never discussed it with them. Mr. DASH. You don't recall that at all? Mr. MITCHELL. I don't recall that. no. I can only say that Mr. Dean' was the, conduit, was the party who acted between the two committees and came back and forth and discussed things with us so that whether---- Mr. DASH. Did you have any communication with Mr. Haldeman or Mr. Ehrlichman yourself during this period of time? Mr. MITCHELL. Oh, I am sure I had numerous communications but. I probably had to do with the running of the campaign, with other such matters rather than what, Mr. Magruder might be testifying to. [00.34.10] Mr. DASH. Did it have, anything to do with the so-called White House horror stories or the scandals you learned about, from Mr. Mardian and Mr. LaRue based on Mr. Liddy's statement, to back them up? Mr. MITCHELL. You are talking about this time, you are talking before, Magruder--- Mr. DASH. Before Magruder's testimony before the grand before the grand jury. [00.34.30] Mr. MITCHELL. Before Magruder's testimony before, the grand jury. I would believe that during that, period of time there were some discussions of the, so-called White House stories, yes. Mr. DASH. Was there----- Mr. MITCHELL. Horrors. I mean not stories. Mr. DASH. Was there a concern expressed by you to 'Mr. Haldeman or Mr. Ehrlichman concerning whether stories would be revealed during this campaign? [00.34.51-In other words, it was not necessary just to coverup WATERGATE, but a gigantic host of other illegal acts] Mr. MITCHELL. I think that -we all had an innate fear that during the campaign that they might be revealed. I recall discussing it, specifically in that area but I am sure we must have had a mutual concern about the subject matter. Mr. DASH, Well, did you yourself form a personal position as to what should be done about revealing this material [00.35.17-MITCHELL'S rationalization of COVERING UP the WHITE HOUSE HORRORS] Mr. MITCHELL. I formed the opinion and a position that I did not believe that it was fair to the President to have these stories Come out during his political campaign. Mr. DASH. Were YOU aware that there was a program actually going on so as to actually prevent these stories from coming out? Mr. MITCHELL. NOW, which program are you talking about, Mr. Dash, so I can be sure to answer your question properly? Mr. DASH. Well, a program on the part of yourself, 'Mr. Dean, Mr. Haldeman. Mr. Ehrlichman, and perhaps 'Mr. LaRue and Mr. Mardian to see to it that the information that got to the prosecutor or to the grand jury or to the civil suits did not in any way include this information concerning the so-called White House horrors as you described them'? [00.36.12] Mr. MITCHELL. Well, Mr. Dash, that is a very broad question and covers a lot, of areas. I may answer it. perhaps, by saying that we sure in hell were not volunteering anything. In addition to that, we were Involved in a very difficult series of civil litigation. as you know, that involved discovery and all the rest of it. So we were not volunteering anything. [00.36.34] Mr. DASH. But, you say you did come to know that, prior to Mr. Magruder's testimony that he was going to testify falsely? Mr. MITCHELL. I think I can put it On the basis that I had a pretty strong feeling that his testimony was not going to be entirely accurate. Mr. DASH. Right, and this discussion, I think you have already testified, was part of the discussion of some of the meetings with Messrs. LaRue, Mardian, Dean. and Magruder. Mr. MITCHELL. That is correct. Mr. DASH. it be Would it be correct---- Mr. MITCHELL. I think the best way to put it is that Mr. Magruder would seek an audience to review his story that he was going to tell, rather than somebody was trying to induce him to do so. I think Mr. Magruder has testified that nobody coerced him to do this. that he made up the Story, that he did it of his own free will. So it was more of a basis of Mr. Magruder recounting to these assembled groups what he was going to testify to. [00.37.36] Mr. DASH. But would it be fair to say, Mr. Mitchell, that it was in the interest of the group to have the story that, did go into the grand jury and the ultimate indictments that did come out cut off at Liddy? And Mr. Magruder, who was in such a high position in the committee, would not be involved in that type, of thing? [00.37.52-MITCHELL'S skill as a lawyer makes him seem arrogant and dishonest as a witness-splits many hairs] Mr. MITCHELL. Mr. Dash, I think you are jumping from one conclusion to another without the bridge. What we were really concerned about were the White House horror stories. Now, if the cutoff that you speak Of helped in that direction, perhaps that was probably the case. In other words, Watergate did not have the great, significance that the White House horror stories that have since occurred had. Mr. DASH. Would you say that whatever coverup was taking place to this point, concealment and not volunteering information, had to do with actually preventing the so-called White House horror stories rather than Watergate break-in? Mr., MITCHELL. This was certainly my belief and rationale and I would believe the people in the White House, certainly some, of them, might well be involved and certainly would have similar interests. [00.38.44]
Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, July 10, 1973
[00.38.44-DASH interrogates MITCHELL about the COVERUP. MITCHELL engages DASH in a great deal of Hair-splitting about his working relationships with the President and the high-level White House staff] Mr. DASH. Well, did Mr. Dean in carrying back the messages from Mr. Haldeman and Mr. Ehrlichman, indicate that he had in fact informed them of the actions that had been taken--the strategies performed by your group? Mr. MITCHELL. I cannot say that he did or did not, I would have to believe that Mr. Dean was reporting to those gentlemen over there. Mr. Dean, as a proper lawyer, proper counsel, was very, very limited in his discussions of -what he did or said -with people in the White House and that is the way, of course, he should have acted. Mr. DASH. I think you testified that you at least discussed with Mr. Haldeman and Mr. Ehrlichman the problems involved in the Liddy operations, the Ellsberg, and other situations? Mr. MITCHELL. Yes, and that -was somewhere down the line, probably much later than the time frame of which you are talking about in relationship to Mr. Magruder's appearance before the grand jury. Mr. DASH. All right, now, let us look very briefly to the so-called-wiretapping of the journalists and Mr. Kissinger's staff as a result of the wiretaps? the SALT talk leaks. Were you aware of the leaking and those wiretaps? [00.39.58] Mr. MITCHELL. Mr. Dash, I find it hard to give you a specific answer other than the fact that, yes, I 'was. To what extent, I do not know. This happened in 1969 and they were national security wiretaps. They should have a full record of everything that was handled in the Department of Justice, because every security tap, -whether it be a strict national security dealing with foreigners or whether it, is the type that the court, has since frowned upon, is filed the Department of Justice. Mr. DASH. 'But this -would require your authority as Attorney General, would it not? [00.40.46-MITCHELL tries to downplay his role during his entire term as ATTORNEY GENERAL in surveillance and law enforcement policies that were constitutionally questionable, domestic wiretapping, etc.] Mr. MITCHELL, I would believe that the FBI -would-probably not operate without it. I am not sure of that, but I believe that that would be the case. Now, let me go on to point out two other things. -No. 1, I do not recall there being that many people involved. I remember some members of the National Security Council that they thought were very suspect. The second point I would like to point out, which gives me memory problems, is, that in the newspapers, accounts have said that some of these were, on for l year and a half or 2 Years, or something to that, extent,. Well, -we have a rule that I put in the Department that where they had these national security taps, they had to be reviewed every 90 days. SO there again, I would have had a memory jog along the way if this be the Case'. So what I am saying, is that, I think Your best evidence is over in the Department of Justice and not my recollection. [00.41.52] Mr. DASH. Well, would the President's recollection be of assistance, Mr. Mitchell? Are you aware of the President's statement of May 22? Mr. MITCHELL. I am aware of that, reference in the statement of May 22. I do not know where it came from. It may quite conceivably be correct. I brought the matter up through a correspondence with Mr. Ruckelshaus 'and I thought I got very fuzzy answers, back, but as I say, the evidence is in the Department of Justice and you ought to have access to it. Mr. DASH. Well, you do recall that In that statement of the President, the President did say that these areas did have the approval and were selected, along, with others, by the Attorney General of the -United States, who was you at the time? [00.42.39] Mr. MITCHELL. Mr. Dash, I have seen a lot of statements that come out that--I am not referring to the President-but in which people who dig out the information frequently get their facts wrong. Mr. DASH. This is a very important statement by the President on May 22. Mr. MITCHELL. I thought Mr. Buzhardt's Statement was Quite important as far as I was concerned, too, but. I think we found out what the distinction was there, Mr. DASH. You are not suggesting Mr. Buzhardt prepared the May 22 testimony? Mr. MITCHELL. I am not suggesting anything. [00.43.13] Mr. DASH. Did you believe, Mr. Mitchell--and I use the term belief at this point--have any belief as to whether the President was aware of the events either prior to or after the break-in of the Democratic National Committee headquarters? When I say events. I mean the actual bugging or the coverup which took place thereafter? [00.43.31] Mr. MITCHELL. I am not aware of it and I have every reason to believe, because of my discussions and encounters with him up through the 22d Of March. I have very strong opinions that he was not. Mr. DASH. Now do you arrive at that conclusion? Was it by particular conversations with the President that he talked to you about this subject, or did you talk to him about this subject? Mr. MITCHELL. NO, it is primarily--I do nor want to say no to it, and I will explain the natures of the conversations, if you so desire. As a matter of fact, you may go through that list and I will get a Chance to do them one, by one. What. I am saying- is that I think I know the individual, I know his reactions to things, and I have a very strong feeling that, during the period of time in which I was in association with him and did talk to him on the, telephone that I just do not believe that he had that information or had that knowledge; otherwise, I think the type of conversations we had would have brought, it out.
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Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, July 10, 1973
[00.44.41-DASH interrogates MITCHELL about NIXON'S knowledge of Watergate and the COVERUP] Mr. DASH. Generally is it fair to say that much of your opinion that, you express is based on your faith in the President and your knowledge of the man, rather than any specific statement he President made to you or that you made, to the President? Mr. MITCHELL. Well, I subscribe to the first two. I do have faith in the President and I do think I have, knowledge of the man and I do think there were enough discussions in the area, in the general area, to the point where I think the general subject matter would have come out if the President had had knowledge. [00.45.15] Mr. DASH. Well, now, Mr. Mitchell, you did become, aware, as you have indicated, somewhere, around June 21 or 22, when you were briefed or debriefed by Mr. LaRue and Mr. Mardian about the so-called--as you described it, the White, House horrors of the Liddy operation and the break-in. Did you, yourself, as the. President's adviser and counselor, tell the President what you knew or what you learned? Mr. MITCHELL. NO, sir, I did not. Mr. DASH. Why didn't you ? [00.45.44] Mr. MITCHELL. Because I did not believe that. it was appropriate,, for him to have that type of knowledge, because I knew the actions that he would take and it would be most detrimental to his political campaign. Mr. DASH. Could it have been actually helpful or healthy, do you think? [00.46.01] Mr. MITCHELL. That was not my opinion at the particular time. He was not involved; it wasn't a question of deceiving the public as far as Richard Nixon was concerned, -and it was the other people that were involved in connection with these activities, both in the White House horrors and the Watergate. I believed at that particular time, and maybe in retrospect, I was wrong, but it occurred to me that the best thing to do was just to keep the lid on through the election. Mr. DASH. Then it is your testimony that you in fact. did not say anything to the President at that time Mr. MITCHELL. No, sir, I did not. Mr. DASH. So whether the President had any knowledge of it, it certainly couldn't have come, from, his lack of knowledge or knowledge from any statement, that you made to him? Mr. MITCHELL. That is correct, Mr. Dash. [00.46.57-DASH interrogates MITCHELL on the subject of MAGRUDER'S commission of Perjury before the grand jury-what was MITCHELL'S role in the perjury?] Mr. DASH. Now, were you aware of the fact that actually prior to Magruder's testimony, Mr. Dean rehearsed Mr. Magruder for his testimony before, the grand jury? Mr. MITCHELL. I do not recall that, Mr. Dash, if you are talking' about the testimony that took place on the--- Mr. DASH. In August. Mr. MITCHELL. In August the second appearance. Mr. DASH. The second appearance. Mr. MITCHELL, I am not aware Of that. Mr. DASH. Then prior to Magruder's third appearance, which dealt with the diaries and the meetings in your office, were, you aware or do you recall; the meeting between you, Magruder and Dean. in which a discussion was had concerning how to handle that testimony and how he was to testify concerning those meetings? [00.47.45] Mr. MITCHELL. Well, it wasn't a question so much of how to handle the testimony, it Was a question of what the recollection was. That, I recall, Magruder's testimony had to do with the destruction Of diaries that were already in the possession of the grand jury. But I think Mr. Dean's testimony is a lot closer to the recollection that I have Of the meeting It was a question of what was the purpose of it. who was there. and what could be Said about it to limit the Impact of the whole---- [00.48.21] Mr. DASH. And did Mr. Magruder indicate That he was not going to testify concerning any intelligence plans, but would testify that he was there to discuss the election laws. Mr. MITCHELL. Well, the election laws were discussed -and I think the result was that he would limit it TO the election laws. Mr. DASH. And you were aware. then, in September that he would testify not completely, if not falsely, concerning the meeting on January 27 and February 4? Mr. MITCHELL. Well. that is generally correct. AS I say again, this is something that Dean and I were listening to, as to his story as to how he was going to present it,
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Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, July 10, 1973
[00.49.07-DASH interrogates MITCHELL about the COVERUP of WATERGATE] Mr. DASH. Well, wasn't it the result of your effort or program to keep the lid on? You were interested in the grand jury not getting the full story? Isn't that true? Mr. MITCHELL. Maybe we can get the record straight So You won't have, to ask me after each of These questions; Yes. we wanted to keep the lid on. We were not volunteering anything. Mr. DASH. AS a matter Of fact, would it not be fair to say, Mr. Mitchell. that The most consuming issue that occupied you and Some of those you were meeting with at this time was exactly the question of keeping the lid On during the--- Mr. MITCHELL. NO. I wouldn't say that I that that was correct, Mr. Dash. There Were many other political activities that took place and. of course, I've, probably spent more time in connection with the civil litigation than We did in connection with this particular aspect of it. [00.49.58] Mr. DASH. Well, did you become aware at this; time--in July or August--that payments "were being made to defendants and support payments, for the family? Mr. MITCHELL. I became aware in the fall sometime. and I can't tell YOU 'when it was. Probably It was a time in which one individual stopped making the payments and the other individual took it up, whatever time reference that was. Mr. Mr. DASH. And did you know that Mr. Kalmbach had been involved in that at all ? Mr. MITCHELL. I had learned that. yes. Mr. DASH. Did you also learn That in September, he had decided not to be involved any more and that Mr. LaRue took up the responsibility of landing the funds, making Payoffs? Mr. MITCHELL. Yes, sir. [00.50.44] Mr. DASH. Now, when did you leave your position as the director of the campaign? Mr. MITCHELL. On the 1st of July 1972. Mr. DASH. And when you left, were you not, aware that Mr. Magruder was staying on as deputy director of the campaign. Mr. MITCHELL. Yes, he. stayed on as Mr. MacGregor's deputy. Mr. DASH. And -were you not aware when you were leaving that Mr. Magruder at least faced some serious problem of being indicted on the break-in of the Democratic National Committee headquarters as of July 1? Mr. MITCHELL. As of July 1? 1 think that was a potential, yes. [00.51.29] Mr. DASH. Now, you did meet with the President on June 30, 1972, just before you left. As I understand, you had lunch with the President Mr. MITCHELL. That is correct, sir. Mr. DASH. Did you think it your duty to tell the President at that lunch before you left that the man who was playing such a key role in his campaign, Magruder, had such a problem that he might be indicted for the break-in of the Democratic National Committee headquarters? [00.51.55-MITCHELL acts bored to be asked the same questions again, gives even more vague answers than before] Mr. MITCHELL. Mr. Dash, I think you and I have gone over to the point where we have established that the White House horror stories had come out in connection with the problem at that particular time and there wasn't the question of lifting of the tent slightly in order to get with respect to one individual or another; it was a keeping the lid on and no information volunteered. [00.52.27] Mr. DASH. Even if the lid had been kept, on the so-called White House horrors, wouldn't it be very embarrassing to the President of the United States in his effort to be reelected if his deputy campaign director was indicted in the break-in of the Democratic National Committee headquarters? Mr. MITCHELL. I don't think as far as the Watergate was concerned, there was a hell of a lot of difference between the deputy campaign director and the counsel for the finance committee and the security officer. Quite frankly, as far as the Watergate was concerned, that -was already a public issue. It was the parties that were involved. [00.53.07] Mr. DASH. There came a time, did there not, Mr. Mitchell, that the pressures for money by the defendants or by Mr. Hunt increased? Would you tell us what you know about that? Mr. MITCHELL. Well I am not sure, Mr. Dash, that, I can tell you very much about them other than the fact that somewhere along in the fall Mr. Hunt had a telephone conversation with Mr. Colson, which, I think, covered the subject matter and then later on, as I recall, Mr. Dean has got, in the record a letter from Mr. Hunt to Mr. Colson, which I think is quite suggestive of the fact that, he was being abandoned. [00.54.02] Then I heard later on, in March of this year, there were oral communications from either Hunt or his attorney relating to requests for legal fees and so forth, which were communicated to the White House [00.54.21]
Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, July 10, 1973
[00.54.21-DASH continues interrogating MITCHELL about efforts to pay off the DEFENDANTS-for a man at the center of the alleged activities, MITCHELL professes to know very little...] Mr. DASH. How did you hear about the March request? Mr. MITCHELL. The March request? I think I probably heard about it through Mr. LaRue, if my memory serves me right. Mr. DASH. Do you know how much money was tactually being requested at that time? Mr. MITCHELL. I can't really, tell you about the moneys across this period of time. It seems to me that the March request had some amount in the, area of $75,000 which Mr. LaRue described to me that was being requested by counsel for their legal fees in connection with the representation of Mr. Hunt. Mr. DASH. Did Mr. LaRue ask you what your opinion was or whether he should pay that amount of money to Mr. Hunt or his counsel? [00.55.14] Mr. MITCHELL. 'Mr. LaRue, to the best, of my recollection. Put it this context; I have got this request, I have talked to John Dean over at the White House, they are not In the money business any more, what, would you do if you were in my shoes and knowing that he made Prior payments? I said, if I were you. I would continue and I would make the payment. Mr. DASH. And in that advice to Mr. LaRue. I take it, was the consideration that unless that payment was made, Mr. Hunt might in fact, might uncover the so-called White House horror stories, [00.55.48-MITCHELL again tries to play dumb] Mr. MITCHELL. Mr. Dash, I don't know how you can move from the fact, that Mr. LaRue told me that it was for legal fees to the point Where we are uncovering the White House horror stories. It may be there. I don't know. Mr. DASH. Didn't that enter your mind, the pressure from Mr. Hunt, the fact that, you indicated there were requests and former pressures for money, to the----- Mr. MITCHELL. I don't think, Mr. Dash, that in March of 1973. those things Were entering my mind, because I think as you are well aware from other testimony, I had refused to even consider raising money for these purposes a long time before that. Mr. DASH. But YOU are aware that there Was a sum of money available for that at the White House, were you not? Mr. MITCHELL. I was aware that there had been one at one time. but I didn't know how far they had gotten into that particular fund. Mr. DASH. Was this the $350,000 had come over from the Committee for the Re-Election of the President to the White House---- Mr. MITCHELL. That is the only fund I was aware of, yes. [00.56.55] Mr. DASH. Why Mr. Mitchell, did you refuse around that time to raise any money for the payment of these fees? Mr. MITCHELL. Well. not only around that, time, but all other times I have, never raised any money for anything and I was not about to start for that particular purpose. Mr. DASH. Did you ever make any suggestions that the money that should be used for that purpose was the $350,000? Mr. MITCHELL. -No, to the best Of my recollection, I had -a conversation With Mr. LaRue, I am sure at his instance, not mine, In which he Pointed out that the funds, whatever source they were, that he had for the support of and the, payment of lawyers' fees of these, individuals, had run out, did I know whether there was any other money? And I suggested that maybe you ought to call over to the White House and see if the $350,000 that had had been sitting over there since April was available for the purpose. I understand that he did so. [00.57.56] Mr. DASH. Do you recall attending a meeting in with Mr. Kalmbach and Mr. Dean in which you asked Kalmbach to help raise money for these legal fees and support of families? That occurred in January 1973. Mr. MITCHELL. In January 1973. Since, our conversation of yesterday Mr. Dash, I have continued to rack my brain and I have no recollection of that. I know that there Was a meeting on that day, January 19, a foundation meeting over here in Blair House, in which both Mr. Kalmbach and Mr. Dean were there. But I have no recollection of any meeting beyond that. [00.58.41] Mr. DASH. -NOW, did you become also aware of Mr. McCord's demands and were you in touch -with Mr. Dean concerning Mr. Caulfield's approach to Mr. McCord? Mr. MITCHELL. Somewhere through the middle, of it, because I -was in Florida for sometime, I think the 20th of December through the 8th or 9th of January, while a lot of this Was occurring. Mr. DASH. What role did you play? What did you learn?, Mr. MITCHELL. I learned that Mr. Dean had Mr. Caulfield contacting Mr. McCord and talking to Mr. McCord. Mr. DASH. About what? Do you know about what? Mr. MITCHELL. About what, Mr. McCord's attitude -was concerning the predicament that he was in and what he was going to do. [00.59.29]
Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, July 10, 1973
[00.59.29-MITCHELL is interrogated about the COVERUP] Mr. DASH. At that time, did you hear that Mr. Caulfield had been authorized to promise some form of Executive clemency to Mr. McCord? Mr. MITCHELL. I don't believe so. I think the only conversations that I had heard about Executive clemency had to do with Mr. Colson and Mr. Hunt. Mr. DASH. Well, what Was that, to the best of your recollection?, Mr. MITCHELL. To the, best of my recollection, it was that somewhere along the line, and I gather that that would be in 1973, early 1973, there were discussions of whether or not Mr. Hunt ---well, I gather he had approached Colson, or through his lawyer had approached Colson on the subject matter. [01.00.14] The essence of it was that Mr. Colson's word was the only Word that Mr. Hunt would take with respect to Executive clemency, whatever that meant. That is the subject and substance of my overhearing of discussions on Executive clemency. Mr. DASH. Now, Mr. Mitchell, you became aware., apparently, that after the election and after the questions concerning the funds that were being used by Mr. Hunt and Mr. 'McCord's concern, that whatever you discussed as keeping the lid on might become uncovered. Did that, sometime around December or January, occur to you? [01.01.02] Mr. MITCHELL. Well, it always occurred to me, the possibility that the so-called lid would become uncovered. Of course, I always hoped that it didn't, for the very simple, reason that there was no necessity of scaring the President, who was not involved, through his White House activities or the activities in the, White House, Mr. DASH. But the real possibility of it becoming uncovered, -now that the election was over, could not, affect his election. Mr. MITCHELL. No, it, Would not affect his election but it Would affect his Presidency, Mr. Dash. [01.01.39] Mr. DASH. But you were aware. and I think from your own statement that the President Was unaware, and You had personal knowledge or knowledge of information you had received from others of certain activities, that if they did become known publicly could either injure or destroy the President's second administration. After the election, did it occur to you to tell the President then? Mr. MITCHELL. Well, I am sure it occurred to me and probably on hindsight I probably should have. I do not think there is any doubt about, it. [01.02.08] Mr. DASH. Did you not think it was the President's prerogative to know what to do about these matters? Mr. MITCHELL. The decision had to be made, and it is a tough one, whether or not he is not. involved in it but he does not know about them, will this go away. I knew they were going to change the personnel in the White House and hopefully they would be gone and he would not have to deal with it and he could go on to his second term, the second Presidency, without this problem. Mr. DASH, But you were taking a major risk. were you not. Mr. Mitchell? Mr., MITCHELL. I think you are taking a major risk any time you have to deal with the White House horrors under any circumstances. [01.02.49] Mr. DASH. 'Now, you spoke to the President quite frequently on the telephone. you met with him, your logs indicate, so you did have plenty Of opportunities. and on no occasion. I think it is your testimony. did you speak to the President about these matters? Mr. MITCHELL. Now. which matters are we talking about? Mr. DASH. Again, the White House--- Mr. MITCHELL. About disclosing these, matters. Mr. DASH. Disclosing the matters, the White House horrors, the break-in. Mr. MITCHELL. I did not--well, let US not pass this over to the point where--on the 20th of June when I talked to him I apologized to him for not knowing what the hell had happened and I should have kept a stronger hand on what the people, in the committee were doing, et cetera. And then, further on down the road in these political meetings that are shown on the, logs. there were discussions about appointing a commission of the type of the Warren commission to Investigate this matter. and special prosecutors and things like that. I do not want to leave the, impression that it was never touched under any circumstances. [01.03.53] Mr. DASH. I am not talking about when you talked about Watergate as such. I am talking about the so-called coverup, the White House horrors and what your own knowledge, based on information given you, [01.04.03-TAPE OUT]
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Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, July 10, 1973
[00.02.00-MITCHELL testifying about his decisions not to tell NIXON about the illegal activities in the White House] Mr. MITCHELL. Well, I am sure it occurred to me and probably on hindsight I probably should have. I do not think there is any doubt about, it. Mr. DASH. Did you not think it was the President's prerogative to know what to do about these matters? Mr. MITCHELL. The decision had to be made, and it is a tough one, whether or not he is not. involved in it but he does not know about them, will this go away. I knew they were going to change the personnel in the White House and hopefully they would be gone and he would not have to deal with it and he could go on to his second term, the second Presidency, without this problem. [00.02.35] Mr. DASH, But you were taking a major risk. were you not. Mr. Mitchell? Mr., MITCHELL. I think you are taking a major risk any time you have to deal with the White House horrors under any circumstances. Mr. DASH. 'Now, you spoke to the President quite frequently on the telephone. you met with him, your logs indicate, so you did have plenty Of opportunities. and on no occasion. I think it is your testimony. did you speak to the President a bout these matters? Mr. MITCHELL. Now. which matters are we talking about? Mr. DASH. Again, the White House--- Mr. MITCHELL. About disclosing these, matters. Mr. DASH. Disclosing the matters, the White House horrors, the break-in. [00.03.12] Mr. MITCHELL. I did not--well, let US not pass this over to the point where--on the 20th of June when I talked to him I apologized to him for not knowing what the hell had happened and I should have kept a stronger hand on what the people, in the committee were doing, et cetera. And then, further on down the road in these political meetings that are shown on the, logs. there were discussions about appointing a commission of the type of the Warren commission to Investigate this matter. and special prosecutors and things like that. I do not want to leave the, impression that it was never touched under any circumstances. [00.03.50] Mr. DASH. I am not talking about when you talked about Watergate as such. I am talking about the so-called coverup, the White House horrors and what your own knowledge, based on information given you, as to who was involved in the he break-in of the DNC. Mr. MITCHELL. I answered that I did not talk to him about it. Mr. DASH. I know, but on the 20th----- Mr. MITCHELL. I also answered in hindsight it probably would have been a better idea if I had. Mr. DASH. Now, also on March 27 did Mr. -Magruder come to see you in New York? Mr. MITCHELL. Yes. sir, he did. [00.04.23] Mr. DASH. And do you recall that he testified that he came, because he began to be aware or concerned that things might, unravel and, therefore'. wanted assurances from you that he be taken care of. Do you recall that? Mr. MITCHELL. I recall very well, Mr. Dash. because, of the fact that there Was, based In the McCord letter to Judge Sirica, and -Mr. Magruder wanted to talk to me about the potentials of his being brought back before the grand jury on a perjury count. [00.04.54] Mr. DASH. Did you promise him at that time, as he testified, that to the best of your ability, though you no longer were in office, you would help him to either get Executive clemency, support, or rehabilitation, any of the things we have been asking about? Mr. MITCHELL. Let us take Executive clemency. No, I have never promised that to anybody. Obviously, there is no basis upon which I could. With respect to, you were talking about support and so forth, what I told Jeb Magruder was that I thought he was a very outstanding young man and I liked and I worked with and to the extent that I could help in any conceivable way, I would be delighted to do so. And this was exactly the same conversation that we had the next day down at Haldeman's office. [00.05.45] Mr. DASH. Did Mr. Magruder then ask for that meeting with Mr. Haldeman? Mr. MITCHELL. Oh yes. Mr. DASH. Did he feel he needed that assurance from somebody still in the White House? Mr. MITCHELL. That is right. Mr. DASH. And met with Mr. Haldeman on the 28th of March? Mr. MITCHELL. 28th of March, that is correct. Mr. DASH. What kind of assurances were being sought by Mr. Magruder there and what was being given to him? [00.06.00] Mr. MITCHELL. Mr. Magruder was again concerned--well he did not express it too directly--that he thought he might become the fall guy. It seems to me that everybody around this town involved in this all thought they -were going to become a fall guy. Mr. DASH. Did you, Mr. Mitchell? Mr. MITCHELL. Did I? No. Contrary to the story that I have read I did not believe that, to be the case, I AM quite, anxiously waiting to see if there is some possibility of that other than some misguided counsel who wrote a piece of paper from which cross-examination was to be made. [00.06.43] Mr. DASH. Getting back to Mr. Haldeman and Mr. Magruder's meeting with you on March 28--- Mr. MITCHELL. Yes, it was the same general discussion, "I may have problems with my perjury, I don't have any money, am I going to be deserted, -are you people still going to be friends, will I be able to get counsel," this type of conversation. [00.07.12]
Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, July 10, 1973
[00.07.12-MITCHELL is interrogated about the coverup] Mr. DASH. Did Mr. Haldeman make -any kind of promises to Magruder at that time, in your presence? Mr. MITCHELL. None other than the fact to help him as a friend and,' I think Mr. Haldeman has testified to that. Mr. DASH. IT. NOW, did you over have a meeting with Mr. Magruder" and Mr. Dean after that meeting with Mr. Haldeman? Mr. MITCHELL. Yes sir. Mr. DASH. What was as that meeting about? Mr. MITCHELL. Well, this was held at Magruder's request because he again was concerned about this perjury question that he might have, and the meeting was a quick run-through again of the recollection of the individuals as to what was discussed prior to Mr. Magruder's third appearance before the grand jury back -in September. Mr. DASH. Did you agree, at that time Mr. Mitchell, that you would hold the line, at, least, if you were called, to limit the meeting to a discussion of the election laws? [00.08.08] Mr. MITCHELL. No, that was not the basis, to hold it to the election laws, Mr. Dash, The basis of it was for the recollection of what had happened and how it would have affected Mr. Magruder in perjury. You see. if you go back Magruder had said there only had been one meeting when there actually had been two, and so forth, It wasn't a question of holding the line on anything. It was a question of the recollection of what actually did happen vis-a-vis what Magruder apparently had testified to. [00.08.40] Mr. DASH. He was obviously concerned as to what your position going to be if you were called before the grand jury. Did you make any assurances to Mr. Magruder at that time? Mr. MITCHELL. Any assurances as to what? Mr. DASH. How would you testify before the grand jury if you were called as to the meetings? Mr. MITCHELL. I made no assurances as to how I was going in to testify. Obviously I was going to testify as to what happened. Mr. DASH. Did Mr. Dean make any assurances? [00.09.03] Mr. MITCHELL. Mr. Dean had a very hazy recollection of what had happened. Obviously, as I think Mr. Dean testified, he didn't want to discuss the matter. he had already of course, gone to counsel and was looking after Mr. Dean's problems. Mr. DASH. Did you learn during April that Mr. Magruder and Mr. Dean had gone to see the prosecutors? Mr. MITCHELL. I learned about Mr. Magruder. I didn't learn about Mr. Dean. [00.09.34] Mr. DASH. And were you personally aware of Mr. Dean's meetings -with the President in March and that he testified to before this committee? Mr. MITCHELL. On the meeting of March 22 at which, of course, I was present. Mr. DASH. What I am talking about are the meetings of September 15, 1972, the meeting of February 28. Mr. MITCHELL. Now, Mr. Dash. you are talking about 1972. Mr. DASH. The meetings of September 15, 1972, with the President, February 28, 1973, March 13, 1973, and March 21. Are you aware, of those meetings? [00.10.12] Mr. MITCHELL. Let, me put it this way. The only meeting that I was aware of. of Mr. Dean and the President was the one, I attended March 22. Mr. DASH, At that meeting was there any discussion by the President, by you or by Mr. Dean, concerning the, Watergate, either coverup or who may be involved in an indictment or anything like that on the 22d? [00.10.34] Mr. MITCHELL. None whatsoever The total discussion had to do with the, White House's response to this committee,. and I think it was Prompted, or at least that was my understanding at the time. it was prompted by the fact that the President was getting a pretty good knocking 'around in the press on the question of executive privilege. I believe it, arose with respect to the Gray hearings but it certainly was to be applicable to this committee's hearings. [00.11.07] Mr. DASH. Well, just a couple of more questions, Mr. Mitchell: I think you have testified -already, and quite frequently that you did not personally inform the President, of any of these so-called called White House horrors or the efforts to keep the lid-on and the Plumbers activities, is that, correct? Mr. DASH. Are you personally aware of anybody else having any conversation with the President concerning these activities? Mr. MITCHELL. Not in my presence. I am not aware, of anybody ever having reported to me that they have had. [00.11.43] Mr. DASH. Likewise it is your testimony that the President did not discuss these events or the coverup with you or, to your knowledge, with anyone else? Mr. MITCHELL. If I understand your question Mr. DASH. To your knowledge. Mr. MITCHELL [continuing]. He has not discussed them with me; to my knowledge, the answer is that is correct. Mr. DASH. To your knowledge. Therefore then, Mr. Mitchell, I am briefing your testimony at this time before the committee. [00.12.09] Is it not fair to say or is it not true that, according to your testimony, you are -not in a position to state to this committee of your own knowledge whether the President in fact knew or did not know of the break-in or the bugging of the Watergate or the coverup efforts that took place after June 17, 1972? Mr. MITCHELL. The, only thing that I can state to my own knowledge, Mr. Dash, is that so far as I know he does not know of either of those circumstances. [00.12.40]
Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, July 10, 1973
[00.19.30-MITCHELL discusses government plans for Domestic Intelligence] I know that Mr. Hoover and Mr. Helms had broken off their liaison that they had established in connection with the CIA and the FBI. There was great interest in finding a vehicle to reestablish that In a meaningful way. and so that basically the implementation of an Interagency Evaluation Commission was to take personnel from the different intelligence-gathering areas. Put them into one room where they Could sort out and exchange ideas and, of course intelligence had. One of the problems that I found in Government was that there was very frequently a great deal of collection of intelligence but the evaluation and dissemination lacked a great deal. [00.20.29] Mr. THOMPSON. Then, was this need for- better coordination because Of problems that the agencies themselves were having internally or was it because of external considerations or both? Mr. MITCHELL. Well. I think I can best answer that to point out, that there were many events that happened in this Country. including the bombing of the Capitol and other such events that, if we had had appropriate intelligence in advance, we might have been able to prohibit it. [00.21.07-MITCHELL expresses paranoia about DEMONSTRATORS] I know that In connection with many Of the large demonstrations, that we had in Washington, while 99 percent of those people who came, came for peaceful protest and I to petition their Government, there was always that lunatic fringe that was bound and determined to thrash the place and cause damage, and if we had had better intelligence in some of these areas, and I am not excluding them to those but in other, areas, but perhaps a great deal of that could have been prevented. That was the basis upon -which the Interagency Evaluation Committee was considered in concept and put into place. [00.21.52-THOMPSON asks MITCHELL about meeting LIDDY and hiring him to the CRP] Mr. THOMPSON. Let us leave that for a moment and invite your attention to the November 24, 1971 meeting which I believe you had With Mr. Liddy and Mr. Dean when 'Mr. Dean brought Mr. Liddy to your office. Mr. MITCHELL. Yes. sir. Mr. THOMPSON. And I believe introduced him to you. I believe your response to questioning this morning was to the effect that at that time you were not aware that Mr. Liddy was to be involved in intelligence activities as such but that later on you understood that he would be. Mr. MITCHELL. No; I don't think that is quite true, Mr. Thompson. What I referred to was the Liddy prospectus about his job description at that time, which was one of the Dean exhibits, had a one-line reference to it in connection with gathering of information of intelligence or whatever it might be. Mr. THOMPSON. Just the one line. Do you recall any discussion about that? Mr. MITCHELL. I don't. As a matter of fact, it is one sentence, not one line. Mr. THOMPSON. Do you have that before you? Mr. MITCHELL. This is exhibit 11 of the bean exhibits. I don't know what committee exhibit it might be. Mr. THOMPSON. And you don't remember any discussion about that at the time? Mr. MITCHELL. No, sir; the meeting didn't last long enough. [00.23.08] Mr. THOMPSON. Did there come a time between that time and January 27 when you became aware, or had a greater understanding as to what his role would be in the intelligence field? [00.23.22] Mr. MITCHELL. Well I might say that. sometime during early December before Liddy was hired by the Committee To Re-Elect the President, Mr. Krogh brought Liddy over, and I may have, been--along with other people to discuss the, Drug Abuse Law Enforcement in which he had been working and which was my knowledge of Mr. Liddy's activities in the White House. I do not recall an any meeting and I am sure the meeting didn't, take place, In, which Liddy's intelligence activities were discussed. It, could very well be that Mr. Magruder, Mr. Dean -who I understand did have meetings during that period with Mr. Liddy may have made, reference to the fact that he was gathering intelligence. [00.24.09] Mr. THOMPSON. Mr. Krogh brought him to your office, you say, in December, you think, of that year? Mr. MITCHELL. Yes, sir; I can give you the exact date if you wish. Mr. THOMPSON. DO you recall right off hand whether it was before, or after he -went to the Committee To Re-Elect? Mr. MITCHELL. Well I believe it would have to be before he went to the Committee To Re-Elect because he was working on this DALE program, the drug program. Mr. THOMPSON. All right. Mr. MITCHELL. It is December 9, 1971. And there had been of course, a series of meetings all over the Government including the, White House, the Justice, Department, HEW, and other places preliminary to setting up the Drug Abuse Law Enforcement program. [00.24.54]
Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, July 10, 1973
[00.24.54-THOMPSON questions MITCHELL about MITCHELL'S awareness of LIDDY'S background in intelligence and other clandestine activities. MITCHELL claims that he was not aware of such, which fits in with the "Blame it all on DEAN" strategy] Mr. THOMPSON. I believe you testified that you did not know at the time of your meeting on November 24 what -Mr. Liddy had done at the White House, any involvement he had with the Plumbers group In the White House or anything of this sort; is that correct,? Mr. MITCHELL. That is correct. It was 6 months later before I learned of the so-called Plumbers activities. Mr. THOMPSON. Were you even aware that he worked at the White House at that time? Mr. MITCHELL. Yes, because he was brought over with Mr. Krogh--- Mr. THOMPSON. I am talking about November 24? Mr. MITCHELL. Yes. I was aware he was at the White House because it was so represented at that meeting. Mr. THOMPSON. Whose office did you understand that he was working in? Mr. MITCHELL. He was Working, under Mr. Krogh's aegis in connection with the drug program over them Mr. THOMPSON. All right. Did you know of' any other activities that Mr. Liddy had at that time? Mr. MITCHELL. he Was very much involved in the White House relationship with the District of Columbia here. In fact, he was their prime contact. But as far as his activities in the area which has since been developed and become common knowledge I had no such ideas. [00.26.00] Mr. THOMPSON. I see. When you met with Liddy and Krogh in December did you inquire of Mr. Krogh then or did you have my discussion as to the nature of Liddy's -work at the White House involving any Of the Plumbers? Mr. MITCHELL. None whatsoever. We discussed entirely the DALE program. to the best of my recollection. Mr. THOMPSON. That seems like Mr. Krogh knew what he was doing and it seems like you were being placed in a potentially embarrassing position by even allowing Mr. Liddy to he presented to you, considering the nature of his prior activities. Did not anyone, who know Mr. Liddy's prior activities Mention the fact to you that you were, about to take a man in an important position of the campaign who had engaged in some of these---- [00.26.45] Mr. MITCHELL. None whatsoever As a matter of fact, Mr. Liddy Was quite actively involved in the establishment of this DALE program which. as you probably know, relates to law enforcement through the use of the courts, grand juries, and so forth and. as I understood that at the time that was one of the reasons that Liddy was brought into the Krogh operation and the Ambrose operation and helped setting that up was because he had been a former assistant prosecutor who did have knowledge with respect to the functioning of grand juries. [00.27.21] Mr. THOMPSON. I believe you made the decision there on November 24 that if it was all right with Magruder that it was all right with you for---- Mr. MITCHELL. I think that is the general tenor in which it was represented. THOMPSON. Whose representations were you relying on, you didn't know the man before, you just met him; Mr. Dean's? Mr. MITCHELL. I was relying on the representations that wore made to me with respect in the background of the individual involved. Mr. THOMPSON. Who made those representations? Mr. MITCHELL. I am sure they were made by Mr. Dean and by Mr. Liddy with respect to what his background was then. Mr. THOMPSON. -Neither of then, mentioned anything having to do with his previous Plumbers activities. Mr. MITCHELL. No, sir, I can assure you of that. [00.28.00] Mr. THOMPSON. All right. Mr. Mitchell, you mentioned in your testimony this morning or implied I believe would be a fair way to state it that, perhaps someone prevailed upon -Mr. Magruder to supersede your orders. I believe you have made public statements that you would like to know who sent Mr. Magruder back again and again 'with this thing that you didn't want to come about. I know you don't like to engage in speculation with regard to other people but, these are things that you volunteered. I was wondering if you could enlighten us a little bit more based upon your prior experience in your relationship with the people in the White House, and things that have occurred since the break-in as to this being a case-of course, Mr. Magruder was a young man, an individual who was a team player evidently--can you shed any light on who it might have been who was doing this? [00.29.02-MITCHELL doesn't want to name the names (Colson) in the White House who he thought pushed MAGRUDER to get the LIDDY plan in operation] Mr. MITCHELL. Well, Mr. Thompson, this would be purely an opinion and would involve people's reputations. I think if you go back to the testimony of Mr. Dean relating conversations that he had both with Mr. Magruder and otherwise I think that that probably is a better answer to the question than my hypothecation or guesstimate at this particular time. Mr. THOMPSON. What part of Mr. Dean's testimony are you referring to? Mr. MITCHELL. Well, there are quite a number of areas and I cannot give you the page numbers, but, they have in two areas. No. 1, what Mr. Magruder told Mr. Dean personally and -what Mr. O'Brien told Mr. Dean that Magruder had told him. And then, of course, there, are, the statements that Magruder himself made about the telephone, calls from Mr. Colson, Mr. Howard, et cetera, I think that those areas of: testimony would probably be a, great, a better source, of information than my conjecture. [00.30.17]
Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, July 10, 1973
[00.30.17-THOMPSON questions MITCHELL about who pushed LIDDY to devise a plan for campaign spying and MAGRUDER to fund the plan] Mr. THOMPSON. I think I see what you mean and I do not want to' try to draw names out that you do not want to present, but just presented one name. Would it be your opinion, if you care us your opinion, as to whether or not it might have come from more than one source? Mr. MITCHELL. It is always conceivable. Mr. THOMPSON. Do you have any reason to believe that it Was either one source or more than one source? Mr. MITCHELL. No, I have no ability to weigh the potentials for the sources of concern in this area. Mr. THOMPSON. Knowing Mr. Magruder, what kind of pressure would he have responded to take an action which, of course, would have been a serious matter; to supersede the orders of his superior? Would anyone in the White House, for example, do you think, with kind of authority, have so impressed him that 'he, would have superseded your orders and acceded to their wishes? [00.31.20-MITCHELL tries as hard as he can without lying outright to make the LIDDY plan approval out to be MAGRUDER'S idea] Mr. MITCHELL. I am sure it could not have been anybody in the White House. It must have been somebody in the White House with which he had a working relationship which he thought perhaps was in the interest of the campaign or somebody who had what you might refer to as superior authority? Mr. THOMPSON. A working relationship during the, campaign Or prior to the campaign? Mr. MITCHELL. -No ; I would put this very much on the basis of a working relationship during the campaign that goes to Some of the testimony here of the people who have evidenced an interest in this intelligence-gathering field. Mr. THOMPSON. Of course, there were many people, in the White House Involved in the campaign, were there not? Mr. MITCHELL. What is your question, were there many people? Mr. THOMPSON. Yes. Mr. MITCHELL. I believe that. the record shows there were quite a few. Mr. THOMPSON. Maybe too many people, would you think? Mr. MITCHELL. At times, that was my opinion. [00.32.20] Mr. THOMPSON. You were discussing some of Mr. Reisner's testimony this morning with Mr. Dash, with regard to the Gemstone documents. I have here verbatim, Mr. Reisner's testimony. I would like to ask you a couple of questions after I read that. I believe Mr. Reisner was talking about Mr. 'Magruder handing him certain documents. "I was handed the documents and I was asked to put them in Mr. Mitchell's files. The nature of that is that things that Mr. Magruder might have wished to take up with 'Mr. Mitchell were put in the file marked "Mr. Mitchell's file' and that does not indicate any more than that.." Were you aware that Mr. Magruder was keeping a file marked "Mr. Mitchell's file,"? [00.33.07-MITCHELL attempts to dodge this line of questioning-the "Mitchell File" did contain wiretap and bugged conversation transcripts] Mr. MITCHELL. Well. Mr. Thompson. I think I can best explain that, that during my busy schedule when Mr. Magruder could get in to see me, as special assistant, where he was the clearing house for memorandums from other people, that he would have more than one item normally, to discuss. They would be in the folder. Frequently we would sit and discuss them and he would take them back. Others, if they were long position papers on matters, he would leave them with Me to read. If that is a Mitchell file, that, is the Jacket in which he brought the materials into the, office. Mr. THOMPSON. Did he ever leave such a file with you for any period of time? Mr. MITCHELL. -Not as a file. He would leave from time to time position papers, certainly. [00.34.02] Mr. THOMPSON. So' as far as you are concerned, your remembrance is that the Mitchell file was not in fact your file, but his file, which he Was using to bring documents to you? Mr. MITCHELL. The only thing that I can identify it as is a folder in which he brought up these memorandums to my office.. Mr. THOMPSON. What Color Was it, if you recall? MITCHELL. I do not recall, sir. [00.34.18]
Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, July 10, 1973
[00.34.18-MITCHELL tries to dodge THOMPSON'S questions about MITCHELL receiving documents from wiretaps and bugging] Mr. THOMPSON. You never saw any Gemstone documents that you remember? Mr. MITCHELL. -NO, sir. Mr. THOMPSON. In retrospect, would there be any materials that Were a product of electronic surveillance Without your knowing that they were? [00.34.28-MITCHELL unwittingly gives an admission of "business as usual" in the John Mitchell Justice Department-I know a wiretap when I see one!] Mr. MITCHELL. No; I would believe that electronic surveillance, after my experience in the Justice Department--I do not know in what forms they are; I have not seen them to this date,. But after my experience in the Justice Department, I think I would have a pretty good idea of what the, source of it might have been, unless it was totally disguised. Mr. THOMPSON. So Mr. Magruder was in effect pushing Liddy and he did come into possession of these documents and he -was either doing it, I suppose, for his own benefit or somebody else's benefit. I mean that seems to be patent on its face, doesn't it? Mr. MITCHELL. Well, it was probably that whoever was doing it, it was in the misguided concept, that it was in the interests of the campaign But as I have, observed before, I couldn't conceive of -what would be in the Democratic National Committee on the 30th of May or the 17th of June that would be in the interest of the process of the campaign of the reelection of the President at that particular time. It just doesn't make any sense to me. Mr. THOMPSON. At the, time that the break-in occurred, what was your professional political judgment as to how the President stood with regard to his chances for reelection? Mr. MITCHELL. Well, we go back to the middle of June and, of course, he had improved substantially from his previous lows vis-a-vis the, then front runner, Senator Muskie. That, looked like he was on the ascendancy. [00.36.05] Mr. THOMPSON. Had not some, polls indicated that, at one time or another, Mr. Muskie was ahead of Mr. Nixon? Mr. MITCHELL. Yes; but I believe if my recollection is correct, that this was somewhat earlier than in June. Mr. THOMPSON. You didn't consider him in trouble at that time? [00.36.22] Mr. MITCHELL. When you are running a campaign, you consider anybody who is likely to get, the nomination against your candidate, you may have a substantial amount, of trouble with them, particularly when you look at the basis of the registration of Democrats vis-a-vis Republicans and I am sure all of you gentlemen are aware of that factor, [00.36.41-THOMPSON makes a pointed question about MITCHELL'S potential motivations to try to cheat in the election] Mr. THOMPSON. The extent of the problems you might visualize might have something to do with the measures you might take to confront it, would it not?' Mr. MITCHELL. I am not sure I understand the thrust of the question. Mr. THOMPSON. Well, I, would think that, if you thought you had the nomination or the, election locked up, that you would sit back and take no chances -whatsoever, any person running a campaign, if you could avoid them. On the other hand if you considered yourself in trouble, you might take, risks that you would not other-wise take. I am not even saying necessarily illegal risks. [00.37.16] Mr. MITCHELL. They are both hypothetical questions as of June 17, with respect, to the first one. I don't believe that anybody thought the election was locked up, certainly with respect to the time element Of June 17, with the potentials of the people that, might become the Democratic candidate at the convention that was taking place in July. There were a, great deal of uncertainties as to who the candidate, might be and as to what the circumstances might he vis-a-vis the incumbent who was seeking reelection. Mr. THOMPSON. Mr. Mitchell, let me ask you about another point. Here is in excerpt from the civil deposition which you gave in the Democratic Party suit against the Committee To Re-Elect the President and I think I am quoting you verbatim in your testimony, when you were asked this question: "Was there ever any discussion at which you -were, present or about which you heard when you were, campaign director concerning having any form of surveillance of the Democratic National Committee headquarters?" Your answer was: "No, sir, I can't imagine a less productive activity than that." Is that a correct--- [00.38.31] Mr. MITCHELL. I think the total context, as I remember it, Mr. Thompson, had to do with the discussion of Mr. McCord and the security group. The answer was given in that context. Mr. THOMPSON. But this particular question, "Was there ever any discussion at, which you were present"--and of course, I assume just from reading this question that that would involve any discussion with anyone. Are, you saying that, it is not your, understanding of It? Mr. MITCHELL. My recollection of the testimony that I gave had to do with the so-called security group in the Committee To Re-Elect the President, which discussed Mr. McCord and the security group. And the answer was in response to that., to my recollection. [00.39.16]
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