Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 29, 1973 (2/2)
Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 29, 1973 (2/2)
[01.03.39-Sen. BAKER interrogating DEAN on his March 21, 1973 meeting with NIXON.] Senator BAKER. Let us go back to your conversation with the President, we are on March 21 still. Can you recall any--- Mr. DEAN. I was explaining that. But even before this. you know, before the sentencing. I was quite confident that McCord was the Most likely individual who would not remain silent and I did not-- specifying who it was. [01.04.06-DEAN testifies about warning NIXON that the COVERUP was bound to unravel] I told the President that I did not think it was possible that, all of these individuals would remain silent forever. Senator BAKER. But Mr. McCord and the incident, that you have just related are what you had in mind when you made that statement to the, President? Mr. DEAN. That is correct. Senator BAKER. Go -ahead, if you will. Mr. DEAN. I also-and without repeating, unless you want me to repeat it in full again, because I have repeated it several times now, is the matter about the fact of Mr. Hunt's demand that came directly to me through Mr. O'Brien, came up in the conversation. Senator BAKER. Is this a conversation with the President? Mr. DEAN. That is correct. Senator BAKER. On March 21? Mr. DEAN. That is correct. Senator BAKER. Is it fully noted in your testimony? Mr. DEAN. Yes, it is, and--- [01.05.00] Senator BAKER. Is the language used in your testimony, prepared statement, exact enough for us to assume that that is precisely what you said and the President said, to the best of your recollection? Mr. DEAN. Mr. Vice Chairman, I have exercised the greatest degree of care, particularly with my conversations with the, President in my written statement. I have tried to not overstate anything and pursuant to the committee's desire to have the facts, to not understate anything. Senator BAKER. All right now. How many-just, so I know whether to ask you to do it again or not--how many more meetings are there, that you need to describe? [01.05.39-DEAN describes subsequent meetings with NIXON] Mr. DEAN. Well, there are several meetings. There is a meeting on the afternoon of the 21st. There is a meeting on the afternoon of the 22d and there is a meeting when some of these things were repeated, on April 15. Senator BAKER. All right, we have three more meetings to discuss; is that right? Mr. DEAN. That is correct, Senator BAKER. I think for the sake of time I will accept your written statement in that respect. Would you move on then to the afternoon of March 21? Mr. DEAN. This was a meeting that was attended by Mr. Haldeman Mr. Ehrlichman, and myself. When the meeting first commenced--- Senator BAKER. In the Oval Office? Mr. DEAN. No, this was in the Executive Office. [01.06.26] When the Meeting first commenced, Mr. Ziegler was in the President's office, as I recall, and as the meeting settled down, Mr. Ziegler departed the meeting very-shortly thereafter, I have no recollection of how long he was in there, but I would not say, oh. 4, 5, 10 minutes at the most was he there. but there was no conversation because he was still conversing with the President about some press matter at that point in time. Senator BAKER. Anyway, for the purposes of your narrative can we assume that Mr. Ziegler was not privy to any of the Watergate conversation? Mr. DEAN. That is correct. Senator BAKER. All right, sir. Go ahead. [01.07.02-MEETING with NIXON discussing the coverup, DEAN is not entirely clear on the meeting] Mr. DEAN. And that meeting is the meeting in which there were about having Mr. Mitchell come down and there were some discussions about this committee and there -were. some discussions about the fact that I was going to the grand jury, as I recall. but I was very--I have a -very difficult time recalling that meeting for this reason: I was very upset at what, had occurred that morning, had not accomplished the. goal that I wanted to accomplish and so the most important thing--- Senator BAKER. If Will [01.07.42-DEAN, appearing despondent, recounts the meeting with HALDEMAN, EHRLICHMAN, and NIXON, where DEAN contradicted H. and E.'s assessment of the sustainability of the coverup] Mr. DEAN. [continuing]. If I might finish--that occurred during that meeting is that the President would, as was an often practice with the President would go around to each individual to ask them for- their Judgment on a given point, and every time he got to me I would say No I disagree and finally, it got around to "Why do you disagree," and for the first time, I said in front of the President and in front of Mr. Haldeman and Mr. Ehrlichman, I said, "I think that Mr. Haldeman Mr. Ehrlichman, and myself are indictable." [01.08.13] Senator BAKER. You anticipated my question. I was about to my if you would please state the important feature, of that. conversation. Is there any other significant and important part of the afternoon conversation other than that? Mr. DEAN. That is, sir, the most significant, thing because I call recall Mr. Ehrlichman was rather unhappy, as I said, when I said that. [01.08.37-DEAN discusses when he finally crossed EHRLICHMAN on the COVERUP] Senator BAKER. What did Mr. Ehrlichman say or how did he express his unhappiness? Mr. DEAN. Well, it, was kind of, you know, a look and, you know, kind of a pained expression. and he did not reach across the table, and Swing at me of- anything of that nature, but, it was quite evident that when one, man looks at another man you can tell whether--- Senator BAKER. In addition to that nonverbal communication did Mr. Ehrlichman say anything to you at. that, point that, might be significant, to this record? Mr. DEAN. I think it is--my recollection of his particular response is not that good because I Just have a very clear impression that, he, was unhappy. I know that subsequently to that, and I do not -want to confuse subsequent events with events that occurred during the course of that meeting. that Mr. Ehrlichman got into a little discussion with me about obstruction of justice laws and I told him that he ought to pull his code down because I had had a rather interesting encounter with Mr. Ehrlichman the very first time I had met him back in 1970 when he was becoming counsel to the President, I met him in Senator Hruska's office, as a matter of fact, and he said, "Well, I have just been down to my new office where I am going, to be counsel and they do not have any law books down there and the first thing I am going to do is put some law books down there." [01.10.06]