Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities - Testimony of James McCord.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities - Testimony of James McCord.
Master 10362 Part 1 Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 18, 1973 - Testimony of James McCord (Jim McCord) Caucus Room, Russell Senate Office Building, Washington DC
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities - Testimony of James McCord.
Senator ERVIN questioning Jim McCORD about PRESSURE on McCORD to accept EXECUTIVE CLEMENCY in exchange for silence at trial-- In voice, phrasing, and appearance, ERVIN embodies DIXIECRAT] Senator Sam ERVIN. Now, this meeting was arranged at his insistence, wasn't it? Mr. James McCORD. Yes, sir. Senator ERVIN. Then you met him again on Sunday, January 14, on the George Washington Parkway? Mr. McCORD. Yes, sir. Senator ERVIN. What was the conversation with him at that time, or rather was that meeting held at his instance? Mr. McCORD. Yes, sir. Senator ERVIN. What occurred at that time? Mr. McCORD. Let me refer to my notes to be sure. The discussion was that there was no objection to renewing the motion on discovery of government wiretapping and that if that failed I would receive executive clemency after 10 or 11 months, and then the conversation went on to say that "the President's ability to govern is at stake. Another Teapot Dome scandal is possible and the government may fall. Everybody else is on track but you, you are not following the game plan, get closer to your attorney." Senator ERVIN. Did that conversation occur in the automobile or did you get out of the automobile? Mr. McCORD. No, sir; it was out of the automobile and it would be 50 feet, I would guess, from his car where we walked down toward the Potomac River from the overlook, just the two of us were present. Senator ERVIN. The first conversation was on Friday, January 12, and that all occurred in the automobile? Mr. McCORD. The other two meetings were in his automobile. Senator ERVIN. Yes. And then on your second meeting on Sunday, January 14, you got out of the car and walked in the woods toward the Potomac River? Mr. McCORD. Yes, sir. Senator ERVIN. Now, after that time you got several phone calls from him urging that you meet him again, did you not? Mr. McCORD. Yes, sir. Senator ERVIN. And you told him you didn't know anything further, that you had already made up your mind you would not accept Executive clemency, that you thought that it would be impossible for you to get a fair trial, and that you had hopes that on account of that, your belief that you had been wiretapped that the trial might be set aside, did you not? Mr. McCORD. Words to that effect, yes, sir. Senator ERVIN. And so he kept insisting on you by phone to meet him again and you met him on Thursday, January 25, 1973? Mr. McCORD. Yes, sir. Senator ERVIN. 1972? Mr. McCORD. 1973. Senator ERVIN. Now that is when you say you were in his automobile? Mr. McCORD. Yes, sir. Senator ERVIN. In a direction down towards Warrenton, Va.? Mr. McCORD. Yes, sir. Senator ERVIN. What did be say on that occasion? Mr. McCORD. We had about a 2-hour conversation. There were repeated offers of at various times during the discussion of Executive clemency and financial support following prison and rehabilitation. There were discussions about the game plan that we referred to, there were discussions about the two telephone calls, and his comment that that could possibly wait till appeals if they found no records of them. Senator ERVIN. You thought your telephone had been wiretapped and he told you he had investigated that and found out It had not? Mr. McCORD. Yes, sir. Senator ERVIN. Now, this was a time when he made a statement to you which you interpreted to be something in the nature of a threat. What was that? Mr. McCORD. I believe the words were, the words were, it is not my belief, it is my recollection, that the words were "You know that if the administration gets its back to the wall it will have to take steps to defend itself." Senator ERVIN. He told you in that conversation, in the previous conversations, did he not, that all of the other people involved, that had been arrested in connection with the break-in were going along with the way he wanted them to go but you were the only one who was not going along with the game plan? Mr. McCORD. I believe the words were, "that everybody else is on track but you." Yes, sir. Senator ERVIN. Now, did you ever discuss with Mr. Liddy the exercising of electronic surveillance over the office of Senator Muskie? Mr. McCORD. Yes, sir. Senator ERVIN. And-- Mr. McCORD. I will correct that, sir. We discussed the lease of a building. I don't recall electronic surveillance except in some broad general terms this might at some time be a future target. There was nothing beyond that and this was stated in February 1972. Senator ERVIN. Now, Senator Muskie was one of the candidates for the Democratic nomination for President at that time? Mr. McCORD. Yes, sir. Senator ERVIN. Did you rent any office near the Muskie headquarters? Mr. McCORD. I did. Senator ERVIN. Where were the Muskie headquarters? Mr. McCORD. I believe the address was listed as 1972 K Street, but it was next to 1908 K Street which was an office location that I leased at the request of Mr. Liddy. Senator ERVIN. Where was this office located with reference to the headquarters of Senator Muskie? Mr. McCORD. It was the next building to Senator Muskie's office.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities - Testimony of James McCord.
Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). And I believe the lease was taken in your name and that of John P. Hayes? James McCord. Yes sir. Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). Who was John. P. Hayes James McCord. That was another name for Mr. Liddy. [at edge of close shot of Sen. ERVIN, counselor DASH is visible pointing out parts of ERVIN'S notes to guide his questioning] Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). And later, Mr. McGovern took over these headquarters from Senator Muskie, didn't he? James McCord. I think after June 17th, yes sir. Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). Was there ever any discussion between you and Liddy about exercising any kind of surveillance over Senator McGovern's headquarters? James McCord. There were, sir. They were in the context of the location on First Street primarily. Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). And this room was rented for possible use in that commission, was it not? James McCord. 1908 K Street was, yes sir. Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). Now, do you remember how long the lease of the room continued? James McCord. Yes sir, it continued until July 1972, when I cancelled it. Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). What was the amount of rent that was paid monthly for the room? James McCord. $275 a month. Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). The total rent, then, was about $2,220 that you paid for, was it not? James McCord. There was a settlement fee that I negotiated with the people who owned the lease., which I think included another month's or two payment after July. Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). Did you ever make any effort to bug Senator Muskie's or Senator McGovern's headquarters? James McCord. Never Senator Muskie's. Senator McGovern's, there was a visit to the office by me, I believe on two--on three occasions in total, on one of which I had some electronic equipment with me but it was never installed because there were other people working there at the time. Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). In other words, you never found any time that the office was empty? James McCord. That's correct. Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). You know who paid the rent on this office? James McCord. Which one, sir? Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). Up there by the Muskie and McGovern headquarters? James McCord. The one, at the Muskie office, Mr. Liddy furnished the funds, for that and furnished a cashier's check to begin with. Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). Thank you very much. I believe I have used my 10 minutes.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities - Testimony of James McCord.
Howard Baker (R Tennessee). Mr. Chairman, it is almost 12:15 now and I wonder if it might be better if we differ further examination of the witness until we take a noon recess. Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). What is the will of the committee? The committee will stand in recess until 2 o'clock.