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Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 29, 1973 (2/2)
[01.25.56-DEAN discusses April 15 1973 conversation with NIXON] Senator BAKER. All right. Would you proceed to the next conversation with the President? Mr. DEAN. That will take us to April 15. Now, this meeting was indirectly at my request. On Saturday, the 14th, I had presented a list to Mr. Ehrlichman and Mr. Haldeman and told them that I thought, based on the conversations that my counsel had had with the prosecutors, and my counsel's assessment of the entire facts of the circumstances that they were also targets of the grand jury, along with myself. They expressed concern about this, and grand jury, that this was contrary to what Mr. Kleindienst had told them just a short time preceding that regarding what the grand jury was doing and which way it was going. Well, now, of course, my conversation-, with the prosecutors were, off the record at this point in time. So obviously, the Attorney General would not know it. [01.27.43-DEAN discusses the increased heat on the COVERUP by mid-April, with EHRLICHMAN trying to hold DEAN in line] So after Mr. Ehrlichman--this resulted in the Attorney General meeting with the President on Sunday and I believe Mr. Petersen might have been there--I do not know for a fact--and I had a call from Mr. Ehrlichman also on Sunday, but I was with my counsel and we were in another meeting. I did not answer the call until about 7:30 that night. Mr. Ehrlichman said he happened to be going back to his office and wouldn't I drive along in and have a chat with him about some things he wanted to chat with me. It was quite evident to me that what had happened is that after the President had met with the Attorney General and Mr. Petersen, that Mr. Haldeman and Mr. Ehrlichman had gotten--been informed of this--and he wanted to talk to me about why I had been to the prosecutors. I did not want to, talk to Mr. Ehrlichman. [01.28.36] Senator BAKER. Mr. Dean, I am sorry: it is 3 o'clock and I am going to run out of time and I am going to miss another vote'. but Would you tell me of your conversation with the President on the 15th? [01.28.49] Mr. DEAN. All right, I Will go into that. I was a little rattled by the fact that I had not been to the President to tell him that I had been to the prosecutors when I went in. To be rather specific, he realized I was, rattled and I had had enough rapport with him by this time that I was comfortable in dealing with him. [01.29.13-DEAN wonders whether he has been cut out of the loop by NIXON, HALDEMAN, and EHRLICHMAN and was being called in to see NIXON on April 15 as part of a setup] I had thought on the way in, I wonder if I am being set up by the President. Now, this was an awful thought to run through my own mind, because I knew that Haldeman and Ehrlichman knew that anything the President asked me, I would answer and I would answer truthfully, You just do not lie to the President of the United States. Senator BAKER. Move on to the conversation. Mr. DEAN. Right. Well, I am telling you that--all right. the conversation, So the President offered me a cup of coffee. Senator BAKER. First Of all, where Was the Meeting? Mr. DEAN. This was in the Executive Office Building. Senator BAKER. All right, in the President's office there? Mr. DEAN. In the President's office. Correct. Senator BAKER. Who was present ? Mr. DEAN. The only persons that -were present wore myself other than when Mr. Sanchez came In with some Coca-Cola for me and went back out. Senator BAKER. All right, sir. go ahead. [01.30.08]
Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 29, 1973 (1/2)
[00.16.59-MacNEILL in studio] MacNEILL states that these precedents for involving the President in the congressional investigation, there will be a short break. [PBS network ID-title screen "SENATE HEARINGS ON CAMPAIGN ACTIVITIES"] [00.20.30-MacNEILL] MacNEILL states that the committee will resume with a debate over what it is empowered to investigate. [00.20.44-ERVIN] Senator ERVIN. Senator Inouye. Senator INOUYE. Thank- you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Dean, I have a few questions I would like to follow up on. In your colloquy with Senator Baker on the meeting of April 14, at which time, you have testified that you had a discussion with the President--- Mr. DEAN. April 15, Senator? Senator INOUYE. April 15? Mr. DEAN. Yes. Senator INOUYE. On the matter of immunity? Mr. DEAN. That is correct. [00.21.11] Senator INOUYE. You have indicated that the President told you that he will make, no effort to interfere in your negotiations with the Government. Mr. DEAN. He made that very clear to me, Senator And I might say that that was one of the things that led me to issue the statement that I did regarding my unwillingness to be a scapegoat in this matter. [00.21.35] Senator INOUYE. Do you think at that time the President was aware that you had evidence that might incriminate him? Mr. DEAN. I am sure, he was aware of the conversations we have had and [00.21.44-DEAN suggests he thinks the conversations were TAPED] as I have indicated to the, committee, because of the nature of the conversation, because of subsequent events, I had reason to believe that that conversation was being taped. The subsequent events that gave me further confirmation of that were the fact that the prosecutors indicated the President had indicated to Mr. Petersen that he had taped my conversation or allegedly taped my conversation and that I had said that I had immunity in exchange for the testimony of Mr. Haldeman and Mr. Ehrlichman. [00.22.21-INOUYE returns to the subject of the ENEMIES LIST] Senator INOUYE. This is my final question relating to the matter of friends and enemies. First, may I touch upon the matter of friends. You indicated earlier that the White House was looking into a tax matter involving a very, involving a person very close to the President, and I believe you indicated that he -was guilty up to his teeth. Mr. DEAN. That is correct. Senator INOUYE. Was this matter at that moment in the hands of the, Criminal Investigation Division? Mr. DEAN. When it was first brought to my attention it was still at the Internal Revenue Service. I was asked to see what I could do about it. I called and spoke with Mr. Walters on this case and told him what the concern was. I then--he told me at that point in time, he said-well, let me back up just a moment. The individual involved had said that he thought he was being harassed by the agents of the Internal Revenue Service. I raised this with Mr. Walters and he said, he assured me, that could not be the case after he looked into it. He said there is a very strong case against this individual, and that ultimately it is going to be transferred to the Tax Division at the Department of Justice for further analysis. I merely asked to be kept advised of the status of the case because I felt the President may want to know because this was an individual the President saw with great regularity and I got questions on it with considerable regularity. [00.24.03]
Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 29, 1973 (2/2)
[01.30.08-DEAN describes telling NIXON on April 15, 1973 that DEAN has talked to the PROSECUTORS] Mr. DEAN. I told the President that I had been to the prosecutors. I told him I did not believe this was an act of disloyalty. I felt I had to go and do it. I said I thought in the end that it would be considered an act of loyalty and I felt that when I made my decision to go, that was the way I felt. I told him that in my discussion with the prosecutors. I had discussed my own involvement and the involvement Of others. I told him that I had not discussed any conversations I had with him with the prosecutors, and I had not had any dealings with the prosecutors vis-a-vis myself and the President. [01.31.07-DEAN testifies that NIXON began double-checking on what he was told by DEAN and when, trying to cover his tracks] At one point in the conversation I recall the President asking me about, whether I had reported to him on the fact that Mr. Haldeman had been told by me after the second meeting with Mr. Mitchell on February 4, 1972, about what occurred in that meeting. I said, yes, yes, I had. Then the President raised the fact that this had come in a discussion he had had with Henry Petersen, and Petersen had raised with him why had not Haldeman done something to stop it. Then the, President went on to tell me. he said, well. now, John, you testify to that when asked, Now, I want You to testify to that when asked, that, you told Mr. Haldeman. [01.31.58] At one he point in the conversation--and I am just rambling through the high, points and not through every detail here--at one point in the conversation we talked about the fact that Liddy was remaining Silent. The President at this point--I told him that I thought that Mr. Liddy was looking for some sort, of signal. He told me that he had got from Petersen, I believe, the President had the impression that Liddy was looking for a signal. I said, yes, that is my understanding, also, that Mr. Liddy is looking for some sort of signal. I said, what might be the signal is that you are to meet with Liddy's attorney. At this point, he picked up the telephone and called Mr. Petersen. Senator BAKER. "He" being the President? [01.32.40] Mr. DEAN. "He" being the President. Once he got Mr. Petersen on the telephone, the President winked at me and said, like I was not in the office, began his conversation with Mr. Petersen about the fact that he was willing to talk to Liddy's lawyer if necessary to give Mr. Liddy the signal to talk. Mr. Petersen--I didn't hear the other end of the conversation, but he talked about some other things to Mr. Petersen. I don't know what they were. Senator BAKER. What else? We are speaking of April 15, Mr. DEAN. That is correct. I recall also the President asking me about Henry Petersen and my assessment of Henry Petersen, and I assume this was prompted by the message that I had sent to the President earlier regarding Mr. Petersen when I sent a message through to him that I didn't want to talk to Ehrlichman. I told him I thought that Mr. Petersen was a man who was one of the most able criminal lawyers in the business, that he could give the President a good assessment of the entire circumstance. I told him that he ought to take his own personal counsel from Mr. Petersen. [01.34.00] Now, I didn't feel like telling the President that he had problems but I thought that I was giving the President a very clear signal that he might want to talk to Mr. Petersen about his own situation. I told him that I didn't think that Mr. Petersen would want to do anything to see the Presidency harmed and that Mr. Petersen was a very, very well respected man at the Department of Justice who plays it right down the middle and he will give you the best advice in the world. And that is my assessment of Mr. Petersen. Senator BAKER. What else happened? What else was said by the, President or by you? [01.34.39] Mr. DEAN The President at that time expressed appreciation for my evaluation of Mr. Petersen. I recall, and this is not in my testimony because it is now falling on something that I remembered at the end of the Petersen conversation there was also some discussion about my feelings about appointing a special prosecutor. He said something to the effect that "I don't think we need a special prosecutor at this time, do you?" I said, "I think that -Mr. Petersen is an honorable, capable, man to handle the job." Senator BAKER. Was there anything else? Mr. DEAN. At some, point in the conversation, and I believe this was toward the earlier part of the, conversation, the question came up as to whether I had---- [01.35.39-TAPE OUT]
Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 29, 1973 (1/2)
[00.02.00-DEAN/BAKER split screen, DEAN answering questions about April 15, 1973 meeting with NIXON] Mr. DEAN.----I told him that I thought that Mr. Liddy was looking for some sort, of signal. He told me that he had got from Petersen, I believe, the President had the impression that Liddy was looking for a signal. I said, yes, that is my understanding, also, that Mr. Liddy is looking for some sort of signal. I said, what might be the signal is that you are to meet with Liddy's attorney. At this point, he picked up the telephone and called Mr. Petersen. Senator BAKER. "He" being the President? Mr. DEAN. "He" being the President. Once he got Mr. Petersen on the telephone, the President winked at me and said, like I was not in the office, began his conversation with Mr. Petersen about the fact that he was willing to talk to Liddy's lawyer if necessary to give Mr. Liddy the signal to talk. Mr. Petersen--I didn't hear the other end of the conversation, but he talked about some other things to Mr. Petersen. I don't know what they were. [00.02.56] Senator BAKER. What else? We are speaking of April 15, Mr. DEAN. That is correct. I recall also the President asking me about Henry Petersen and my assessment of Henry Petersen, and I assume this was prompted by the message that I had sent to the President earlier regarding Mr. Petersen when I sent a message through to him that I didn't want to talk to Ehrlichman. I told him I thought that Mr. Petersen was a man who was one of the most able criminal lawyers in the business, that he could give the President a good assessment of the entire circumstance. I told him that he ought to take his own personal counsel from Mr. Petersen. [00.03.43-DEAN discusses his meeting on April 15 with NIXON, after DEAN'S decision to go to the Prosecutors] Now, I didn't feel like telling the President that he had problems but I thought that I was giving the President a very clear signal that he might want to talk to Mr. Petersen about his own situation. I told him that I didn't think that Mr. Petersen would want to do anything to see the Presidency harmed and that Mr. Petersen was a very, very well respected man at the Department of Justice who plays it right down the middle and he will give you the best advice in the world. And that is my assessment of Mr. Petersen. Senator BAKER. What else happened? What else was said by the, President or by you? Mr. DEAN The President at that time expressed appreciation for my evaluation of Mr. Petersen. I recall, and this is not in my testimony because it is now falling on something that I remembered at the end of the Petersen conversation there was also some discussion about my feelings about appointing a special prosecutor. He said something to the effect that "I don't think we need a special prosecutor at this time, do you?" I said, "I think that -Mr. Petersen is an honorable, capable, man to handle the job." Senator BAKER. Was there anything else? [00.05.07-DEAN discusses his conversation with NIXON after his decision to go to the Prosecutors] Mr. DEAN. At some, point in the conversation, and I believe this was toward the earlier part of the, conversation, the question came up as to whether I had immunity from the Government as a result of my dealings with the prosecutors. I told the President that my lawyers had discussed this with the Government, but I assured him--and this is very clear in my mind, because it later came back to surprise me when I read a subsequent statement of the President--I told the, President that I had no deal, I can assure "you, with the Government at all. The President, at that, point said, and I remember this very clearly, he said, "John, I will do nothing, I assure you, to interfere in any way With your negotiations with the. Government." And that would be fairly Close to the words I believe he used. [00.06.10] I think I mentioned earlier also--I don't know if just. in this sequence of going through this particular meeting--that the President asked me if I remembered the Date at which I had given him the report on the implications Of the Watergate, and 1 said that, before I got my got my answer out, he, said, "I think that was on March 21. Do you recall if that, is correct or not? " And I said I had to check my own records to find out what date that was. [00.06.54-DEAN testifies that NIXON engaged DEAN in fact-checking vis-a-vis DEAN'S statements of the facts of WATERGATE] Senator BAKER. -NOW, let me examine that a little more. The President asked you what? Mr. DEAN. He asked me if I remembered what, day it was in March that I had given him my report on the implications of the, Watergate--some -words to that effect again. Before I got my answer out, he said, "I believe it, was on the 21st." I said to him that I would have to check my records or check the records to determine exactly what day that was. [00.07.26]
Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 29, 1973 (1/2)
[00.07.26-DEAN discusses his meeting with NIXON in April, 1973, after DEAN'S decision to go to the prosecutors] And I might add that that came up again on -Monday afternoon, when he told me he had checked and determined that indeed, that it was the 21st. Senator BAKER. Was it the -21 21st? Mr. DEAN. Yes, it was the 21st. Senator BAKER. What else, sir? Mr. DEAN-. We had some discussion about the fact, that I had discussed no national security matters with the prosecutors, or he instructed me that, I could not deal with national security matters or any matters with regard to executive privilege, assured him that I had not at that, point had any such conversations with the prosecutors. [00.08.22-DEAN relates a story that seems like NIXON'S attempt to get on the record (and the White House TAPE RECORDERS) denying complicity in making the PAYOFFS to the WATERGATE BURGLARS for their silence at trial] It 'was toward the end of the conversation that he raised on his own and asked me, if I remembered when he, had mentioned the fact, that it would not be any problem to pay $1 million and I said. "Yes, I recall that conversation. " He said, "Well, of course, I was joking, I was only joking when I said that." Then shortly after that. I recall that he got up from his chair and walked behind his chair to the corner of the office. I don't know if it is the chair he normally sits in when he Is in the Executive Office Building but he has one favorite chair over beside his desk. [00.09.11-avoiding the tape recorders?] He got up and went around the chair and in back of the chair find in a barely audible tone to me, but I could hear what he was saying. he said, "I was foolish to talk with Colson about Executive clemency for Hunt, was I not?" I don't recall making any statement or response to that. It was sort, a declarative statement and I said nothing. Senator BAKER. What else? [00.09.45-DEAN discusses the wrapup of his April 15, 1973 meeting with NIXON] Mr. DEAN-. Well, as I say, shortly after he got out of his Chair, I don't recall him getting back in his chair and we began exchanging some Pleasantries, as I was leaving the office. As I was leaving the office, he said to me, "say hello to your pretty wife" and some things of this nature, which I came home and conveyed to her, because she always liked to hear those things. [Mrs. DEAN, smiling] Then also, as I was standing by the door, I remember I had the door open and I turned to the President, who was standing not 10 feet, away from me, and told the President that I certainly hoped that the fact that I -was going to come forward and tell the truth did not result in impeachment of the President. And I told him that I hoped the thing would be handled right, and he assured me that it would be handled right. And the meeting ended on that note. [00.10.40] Senator BAKER. Is that the last meeting or conversation you had with the President? Mr. DEAN. -No, sir; I met with him the next Monday morning, in which he called me and asked me to come in the office. I received a call while I was, before I really left to come in. Senator BANTER. Hold it just 1 minute The next meeting would have been April what? Mr. DEAN. April 16. Senator BAKER. And is that the last meeting? Mr. DEAN. No-, sir-- well, there were two meetings on the 16th, one call on the 17th and then a call on Easter morning. [pan over audience, all faces looking rather grim at hearing DEAN'S testimony] Senator BAKER. It is 3:15 and I promised to take 20 minutes and I have taken an hour. I am, sorry for that and I haven't the slightest intention of proceeding even to my second question, which was to ask your assistance in identifying the probable areas, of conflict between your testimony and that of other witnesses. Mr. Chairman, I thank you for this time and I am willing to yield at this point. [00.11.39-DEAN acknowledges that his testimony will be strongly contested] Mr. DEAN. Mr. Vice -Chairman, I might just comment briefly on your second question. I am quite aware of the fact that in some circumstances, it is going to be my word against one man's word, it is going to be MY word against two men, it is going to be my word against three men, and probably in some cases, it is going to be my word against four men. But I am prepared to stand on my word and the truth and the knowledge and the facts. I have. I know the truth is my ally in this and I think ultimately, the truth is going to come out.
The Porter Wagoner Show No. 240
The Porter Wagoner Show #240 featuring special guest Jimmy Dickens.
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The Porter Wagoner Show No. 390
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The Porter Wagoner Show No. 387
Porter Wagoner "Company's Comin'" Wendy Bagwell and the Sunliters "Revive Us Again" Mack Magaha "Shufflin' Mack" Dolly Parton "Loneliness Found Me" Porter Wagoner "Albert Erving" Speck Rhodes "Mean Mama Blues" Porter Wagoner "I Found the Man" (gospel) Wendy Bagwell (story/comedy) Porter Wagoner and Dolly Parton (duet) "The Right Combination"
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Porter Wagoner "Old Slew Foot" Glenn barber "She Cheats On Me" Buck Trent "Banjo Buck" (Instrumental) Dolly Parton "Just The Way I Am" Porter Wagoner and Dolly Parton (duet) "The Right Combination" Speck Rhodes (phone) (comedy/narration) Porter Wagoner "Gathering In the Sky" (gospel) Glenn Barber "The World You Live In" Porter Wagoner (group) "Y'All Come"
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Porter Wagoner "Albert Erving" Marshall Barnes "Watching" Buck Trent "DRP" 08.41 Dolly Parton "The Tender Touch of Love" Porter Wagoner and Dolly Parton (duet) "The Right Combination" Speck Rhodes (comedy) Porter Wagoner "Brother Harold Dee" Marshall Barnes "Be A Little Quieter, If You Can"
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Porter Wagoner "Come On In" Bill Carlisle "Dirty Ole Man" Buck Trent "Grandfather's Clock" Dolly Parton "A Letter To Heaven" Porter Wagoner and Dolly Parton (duet) "Better Move It On Home" Speck Rhodes (comedy) Porter Wagoner "Men With Broken Hearts" Bill Carlisle "Jack of All Trades"
The Porter Wagoner Show No. 332
Porter Wagoner / Dolly Parton (duet) (brief in show intro) "Run That By Me One More Time" Porter Wagoner "Dooley" T. Texas Tyler "Oklahoma Hills" Buck Trent "Five String General" Dolly Parton "Tall Man" / "If You Want to Be My Baby" Porter Wagoner and Dolly Parton (duet) "Jeannie's Afraid of the Dark" Speck Rhodes and Porter Wagoner (comedy) Speck Rhodes "I Wish I Was in Arkansas A Settin' on a Rail" T. Texas Tyler "I'll Fly Away" Porter Wagoner, Dolly Parton and the Wagonmasters "The Crawdad Song" (extended version)
The Porter Wagoner Show No. 331
Cates Sisters and Mack Magaha, brief instrumental (show promo) Porter Wagoner "Y'all Come" Cates Sisters "Old Love Affair" Cates Sisters and Mack Magaha (unidentified instrumental) Dolly Parton "Joshua" Porter Wagoner "Blue Moon of Kentucky" Speck Rhodes (comedy) Porter Wagoner "Pastor's Absent on Vacation" ("Pastor's on Vacation") Cates Sisters "Devil's Dream"
Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 29, 1973 (1/2)
[00.12.15-Sen. BAKER concludes his questioning] Senator BAKER. Mr. Dean, I might say that the reason I had tended to formulate, that, question was anticipation of conflict and the very point that you make. The alternative way to handle that, of. course, would be to have rebuttal or surrebuttal from you after we receive the other testimony, that is, if there is conflict, the committee. may wish to recall you to testify further or it may not. But since time is moving on, I think it is better to wait and make that judgment later and I assume that you, like every other witness, would be willing to return if that seems indicated. Mr. DEAN. I stand at, the subpena of the committee at this point, In time and if the committee desires me back, I will return. Senator BAKER. Thank you very much. [00.13.00] Senator ERVIN. I found in the record the exhibit to which I asked you the question whether George Wallace, of Alabama was listed among the enemies. I find that on the page about 12 black Congressmen--Congresswoman Shirley Chisholm and 11 Congressmen are named. And then there is miscellaneous politicos: John V. Lindsay, mayor of New York City, Eugene McCarthy, former U.S. Senator, and George Wallace, Governor of Alabama. [00.13.44-ERVIN gives a HISTORY LESSON to the effect that the committee should obtain the testimony of NIXON.] Now, before I get, silenced, I have been furnished by the Library of Congress through the agency of Senator Inouye a Xerox copy of an extract from the--New York Tribune of February 14, 1862, which has an item of historical value. It is entitled "The Premature Publication of the President's Message." [READING] President Lincoln today voluntarily appeared before the -House Judiciary Committee and gave testimony in the matter of the premature publication in the Herald of a portion of his last annual message. Chevalier Wikof was then brought before the committee and answered the question which he refused to answer yesterday, stating, as is rumored, that the stolen paragraph was furnished to the Herald by Watt, the President's gardener, who was reported as disloyal by the Potter Committee, and whose nomination to a Lieutenancy the Senate so decidedly refused to confirm, but who is still to be seen in the White House, and is said to be an applicant for a foreign appointment. The public can learn from this case in what sewers it is the taste of the Herald to fish for state secrets. The Chevalier is still in close confinement at the Capitol, in quarters at which his fastidious tastes revolt. An iron bedstead was purchased for him today, His most frequent visitor is said to be General Sickles. The first papers taken by the officers out of the pocketbook of the "special representative of the New York Herald," now in Fort McHenry, was a pass admitting Dr. Ives at all hours to the War Department, signed "George B. McClellan." [00.15.34-ERVIN concludes his HISTORY LESSON] Senator ERVIN. That is an item concerning the, manner in which President Lincoln volunteered to appear and testify before the House Committee. Senator BAKER. Mr. Chairman, I might say in that respect, although my precedent, is not, nearly as old as your precedent, that I believe in 1919, in junction with the efforts to ratify the Treaty of Versailles, rather than a President appearing before a committee of the. Congress, in fact, President Wilson invited the Foreign Relations Committee to meet with him. [00.16.10] So as -we, say in Tennessee, there are lots of ways to skin a cat and I wouldn't, presume to say how we go about it. But I do hope that there is some, way to supply additional information on these crucial and important points. Mr. Chairman, might I say one other thing on an unrelated matter? [00.16.27] Congressman Garry Brown has 'written a letter to this committee that. refers directly to certain statements made by Mr. Dean. Congressman Brown has also indicated to me, that he wishes to file a sworn statement, in compliance with the rules of the committee and I would ask if there is no objection, that the letter be included in the record, and the, statement, that, Congressman Brown may later submit be submit included in the record at the appropriate place. Senator ERVIN. Without objection, it Is so ordered.